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draws333
Joined: 17 May 2011 Posts: 17 Location: Canada - Ontario
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Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 2:53 am Post subject: |
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veiledsentiments... Yes I am new to these boards. I'm looking all over the world for employment in the teaching field right now. And yes if I don't manage to find anything decent, I'm going to build up experience here first. Unfortunately the education is flooded here in Ontario, this is why I want to travel. As well, I like the idea of living rent free, seeing the world, and saving some money.
I see getting experience first than travelling as backwards in terms of where I'm at in life. I want to travel and teach than if it's for me stay for years and possibly never come "home" or stay for a few years and eventually work my way back home to settle down.
I already have a South Korean job lined up with the EPIK program there but I'm seeing if I can find anything better. Its roughly 25,000 a year. It is a ESL job obviously, and with my qualifications I feel like an international school teaching either Canadian/american/British/Australian curriculum would be best. I do know how competitive the market is, so I'm using the Korean job as a backup plan.
I appreciate your insight veiledsentiments. |
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globalnomad2

Joined: 23 Jul 2005 Posts: 562
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Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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veiledsentiments wrote: |
You must be a very new reader if you don't know about Scot47. He is the board grump... and has been for over ten years. So, just ignore him if he is too caustic. He is just about to retire from the field, Saudi Arabia, and he swears this board too. I think he thought you may be eligible to be a "sucker" since you believed that an Emirati employer would pay in Kuwaiti Dinar. The Emirates in particular draws many scam employers, so do beware.
Helen...
In the US, we are automatically eligible for certification recognized in the 50 states with a shiny new education degree, but you have to apply to your state on graduation - or you did back in neolithic times when I graduated. Just a formality, and I suspect the paying of some sort of fee. But they don't just hand it to you with your graduation certificate. It is the state that does it, not the institution... though I expect that most universities help new graduates with the paperwork.
draws333...
Helen may be correct that you can earn more at home in Canada, but what about the effect of the fact that overseas teaching is tax-free and usually provides free housing and tickets and such? On the other hand, your lack of experience means that you will probably only get offers from the schools which have marginal conditions... so it is probably better to get a few years of experience at home before trying the Gulf.
VS |
VS, what about me, aren't I a board grouch too?? BTW a friend of mine recently got her teaching credential in Michigan. She had to do a semester's practicum post-BA in order to get a teaching credential.. Oh yeah, I know that because I paid that extra semester for her. Not that it's relevant to anything here, but she's a former chiropractor who hated chiropractic, then eventually got her teaching credential and hated teaching; now she's a medical consultant-paralegal. |
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veiledsentiments

Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 17644 Location: USA
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Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 2:17 am Post subject: |
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globalnomad2 wrote: |
VS, what about me, aren't I a board grouch too?? BTW a friend of mine recently got her teaching credential in Michigan. She had to do a semester's practicum post-BA in order to get a teaching credential.. |
I'm so sorry GN2 (good to see you back BTW ). Of course, you are the Vice Grump. As I recall Scot47 has been here since... goodness, must be the mid-90s. Perhaps you were here then too under a different name?
Didn't your friend have the student teaching practicum with her degree? My last semester was spent at a local junior high school teaching 7th grade English. Good preparation for Gulf university Freshman... about the same maturity level.
VS |
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globalnomad2

Joined: 23 Jul 2005 Posts: 562
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Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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Ha ha, you know my other name, which came after GN2. It's been retired for now.
My friend got her degree in earth sciences education first before having to do the semester-long practicum. |
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Shimokitazawa
Joined: 16 Aug 2009 Posts: 458 Location: Saigon, Vietnam
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Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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veiledsentiments wrote: |
Definitely something going on here. There is NO employer in the UAE who would be paying in Kuwaiti money. If this were a legitimate offer, it would mean that it is 8000-11000 DHs per month.
BTW... just having an education degree does not guarantee that one is certified/licensed. I have a degree in Secondary Education, but never bothered to activate a license as there were NO teaching jobs in the US when I graduated. All of us education degree holders ended up in offices across America being secretaries or bookkeepers.
OK... so you just graduated and have no experience other than the student teaching for your degree. I disagree a bit with Helen1 on this. That suggests that this is not an terribly low offer, but in fact, 8-11,000 DHs would be pretty much what one will get entry level - depending on the size and reputation of the school. The top international school hiring is very competitive and hires pretty much only very experienced teachers for top dollar.
VS |
If you were to give a rough salary figure for experienced teachers with Ph.D and an M.A. what would the difference in salary be?
Do most of the universities - HCT, Zayed, Petroleum Institute, etc. pay teachers with similar qualifications the same compensation and benefits? |
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veiledsentiments

Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 17644 Location: USA
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Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:00 am Post subject: |
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Not many PhDs pass through here and they never tell us what they were offered. I don't know if that is because they get darn near the same as MA holders or so much more that they are embarrassed. I have "heard" that teaching general TEFL courses, PhD's don't get much more than MAs. But if you are a content PhD/professor, you will get significantly more. I expect that it depends on experience... and perhaps your field.
Salaries seem to be in a bit of a flux lately in the Emirates. In the past, HCT/ZU/UAEU were quite close in their packages, but right now... with HCT starting to get desperate... while ZU can pick and choose the best of the best for their few openings... will they start to low-ball? PI hasn't been doing much hiring and last we heard on here, they were reducing their pay/benefits. AUS has one of the best packages, in particular for Americans... but they rarely have many openings just because of that.
Not sure exactly what you are looking for, but that is sort of a general impression that I am getting lately about it all. As I said, few of here know anything specific about PhD salaries.
VS |
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Shimokitazawa
Joined: 16 Aug 2009 Posts: 458 Location: Saigon, Vietnam
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Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 11:33 am Post subject: |
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veiledsentiments wrote: |
Not many PhDs pass through here and they never tell us what they were offered. I don't know if that is because they get darn near the same as MA holders or so much more that they are embarrassed. I have "heard" that teaching general TEFL courses, PhD's don't get much more than MAs. But if you are a content PhD/professor, you will get significantly more. I expect that it depends on experience... and perhaps your field.
Salaries seem to be in a bit of a flux lately in the Emirates. In the past, HCT/ZU/UAEU were quite close in their packages, but right now... with HCT starting to get desperate... while ZU can pick and choose the best of the best for their few openings... will they start to low-ball? PI hasn't been doing much hiring and last we heard on here, they were reducing their pay/benefits. AUS has one of the best packages, in particular for Americans... but they rarely have many openings just because of that.
Not sure exactly what you are looking for, but that is sort of a general impression that I am getting lately about it all. As I said, few of here know anything specific about PhD salaries.
VS |
VS, Thanks for your reply.
I have a couple of coworkers that are considering a move to the UAE - one has an M.A. and the other a Ph.D. I was curious also although not as serious at the moment about making the move as they are.Their degrees are in TESOL and Education, so their degrees would be relevant to ELT.
Interesting that many Doctorates don't pass through there. I thought there would be more Ph.D holders teaching there than any other TEFL destinations mainly because of the higher demands for academic qualifications and higher salaries than other TEFL destinations.
HCT - I thought I had read on this forum a few years ago that HCT were lowering the compensation in their newer contracts - from about 2007 ~ 2008. Are you suggesting that they are hurting for instructors now and so have increased their salaries to attract more applicants?
One of the drawbacks regarding HCT (this is the impression I've been given after following this site for several years) is that HCT tends to be a large and rigid bureaucracy that often micro-manages the instructors. Or would this largely depend on the branch of HCT that one teaches at? Is this representative of the management style of most universities in the UAE?
At the school I'm at now, I am given a huge amount of professional autonomy in how I do my job and I like that. I'm essentially my own boss and can do the job the way I think it should be done. Do such work environments exist at universities in the UAE? I would rather take a hit in pay than work for a university that micro-manages me and controls almost everything I do in the classroom. |
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veiledsentiments

Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 17644 Location: USA
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Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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To get the latest on the last couple years at HCT, just check out the threads here. Micromanagement of the classroom is not the major issue, but the whole management system is the problem right now. For instance, the biggest problems now are at the Abu Dhabi branches because of the proximity of the top Admin... who are into micromanaging management... which creeps down to haunt the teachers. To be honest, it is a zoo these days. Branches outside of AD vary by management, but are still victims of the system to varying extents. Many of their teachers have bailed out or been pushed out in the last couple years and their reputation has been affected. I have heard and read that they are having problems recruiting this year. Will they be forced to raise salaries to get teachers? Perhaps... time will tell.
Back to the PhD topic... I don't recall ever working with a PhD in the Gulf in the TEFL departments. The few people who worked on them while they were teaching, departed for greener pastures as soon as they had it complete. (Since I left, there are a few of them at SQU in Oman, but they are all Arabs... where a PhD is a status symbol.) Most EFL employment in the Gulf that requires advanced degrees is basic English, usually Academic for university foundations programs. Few people with a PhD want to be teaching basic sentence structure to fossilized low intermediate students. They usually move up into teacher training or content courses of some kind.
Managements in the Gulf have a tendency to treat expat teachers the same as they treat their other "servants." It is not what we are used to where we arrive to do our classes, office hours, and occasional meetings. Nope... they want our little ankles chained to our desks for 40 hours a week... even if the students aren't there. How much extra work they give you depends on the university, but we are generally treated like office/factory workers. A place like HCT piles on make-work projects and committees, while other places just let you twiddle your thumbs. (at least there is the internet now) Their attitude is that if they aren't able to watch us, we are likely not to bother to prepare lessons or correct homework. It was an attitude that drove me nuts. And this is something that has become worse over the years and since I left.
VS |
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Shimokitazawa
Joined: 16 Aug 2009 Posts: 458 Location: Saigon, Vietnam
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Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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veiledsentiments wrote: |
To get the latest on the last couple years at HCT, just check out the threads here. Micromanagement of the classroom is not the major issue, but the whole management system is the problem right now. For instance, the biggest problems now are at the Abu Dhabi branches because of the proximity of the top Admin... who are into micromanaging management... which creeps down to haunt the teachers. To be honest, it is a zoo these days. Branches outside of AD vary by management, but are still victims of the system to varying extents. Many of their teachers have bailed out or been pushed out in the last couple years and their reputation has been affected. I have heard and read that they are having problems recruiting this year. Will they be forced to raise salaries to get teachers? Perhaps... time will tell.
Back to the PhD topic... I don't recall ever working with a PhD in the Gulf in the TEFL departments. The few people who worked on them while they were teaching, departed for greener pastures as soon as they had it complete. (Since I left, there are a few of them at SQU in Oman, but they are all Arabs... where a PhD is a status symbol.) Most EFL employment in the Gulf that requires advanced degrees is basic English, usually Academic for university foundations programs. Few people with a PhD want to be teaching basic sentence structure to fossilized low intermediate students. They usually move up into teacher training or content courses of some kind.
Managements in the Gulf have a tendency to treat expat teachers the same as they treat their other "servants." It is not what we are used to where we arrive to do our classes, office hours, and occasional meetings. Nope... they want our little ankles chained to our desks for 40 hours a week... even if the students aren't there. How much extra work they give you depends on the university, but we are generally treated like office/factory workers. A place like HCT piles on make-work projects and committees, while other places just let you twiddle your thumbs. (at least there is the internet now) Their attitude is that if they aren't able to watch us, we are likely not to bother to prepare lessons or correct homework. It was an attitude that drove me nuts. And this is something that has become worse over the years and since I left.
VS |
VS,
Thanks again for your detailed reply! Those are all important things to consider. 40 hours a week - at a university! It wouldn't be a stretch then to say that they treat their instructors more like 9 to 5 salary men / women, instead of academics...seems like more of a corporate environment rather than an academic environment, if that's the case.
On that note, I see another interesting thread popped up here today on the UAE Forum reporting that HCT has cancelled teachers' contracts!  |
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veiledsentiments

Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 17644 Location: USA
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Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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It looks like people are being terminated for some reason... and the gratuity is being cut. They need to see a labor lawyer in the UAE to see if they are doing something allowed under the law.
If you read the past threads, you will see that a significant number of teachers were terminated at this time last year (or was it the year before... time passes quickly) - partially related to media coverage of various issues, but as far as I know, HCT bought out their contracts and followed the law pretty much to the letter.
We will need to get more details. But, I'd say that HCT is down the list of employers one would want right now. Looks like another rotten chapter to the novel.
VS |
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