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delphian-domine
Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 674
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 Posted: Mon May 30, 2011 10:50 pm Post subject: Re: erm |
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| sharter wrote: |
| Don't drink in hotel bars. Paid 12zl for an Okocim in the rynek last night though. Cheap night at 600zs. |
Which bar?
Kinda sad that a 41 year old feels the need to brag about spending 600zl on a night out. |
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Jack Walker
Joined: 23 Oct 2008
Posts: 412
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 4:23 am Post subject: Re: erm |
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| delphian-domine wrote: |
| sharter wrote: |
| Don't drink in hotel bars. Paid 12zl for an Okocim in the rynek last night though. Cheap night at 600zs. |
Which bar?
Kinda sad that a 41 year old feels the need to brag about spending 600zl on a night out. |
Nah,Mr.Sharter wasn't bragging.He just has more expensive tastes than the average grungy ESLer in Poland. |
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simon_porter00
Joined: 09 Nov 2005
Posts: 505
Location: Warsaw, Poland
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 4:23 am Post subject: |
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| dynow wrote: |
If you compare Poland to a developed country, an "average" wage gets you a nice car and a good size apartment. In Poland, you're looking at either mommy and daddy's 70 meter flat or a shared flat hole in the wall with someone else.....and you're driving an old tin can to work on crummy roads......in shite weather.
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Try living in London mate - your 'average' wage in Poland will be like you've hit the jackpot.
London:
average wage (in the UK) = 20k more or less (1,666 gbp p/m)
cost of flat in London = absolute minimum 1,200gbp p/m
Warsaw:
average teaching wage = 4k pln p/m
average cost of flat = 1,8k pln |
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dynow
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1080
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 11:25 am Post subject: |
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simonporter00 wrote:
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| Try living in London mate - your 'average' wage in Poland will be like you've hit the jackpot. |
comparing london to warsaw is just silly. i wouldn't compare NYC prices to just about anywhere in the USA either. |
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simon_porter00
Joined: 09 Nov 2005
Posts: 505
Location: Warsaw, Poland
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| dynow wrote: |
| If you compare Poland to a developed country |
Yup, done that.
| simon_porter00 wrote: |
| Try living in London mate |
| dynow wrote: |
| comparing london to warsaw is just silly |
hang on a minute ..... Didn't you just say compare Poland to a developed country? Which way do you want this Dynow?
Compare or not to compare?
Of course I could compare Warsaw to the worst hell hole in the UK but that would be equally as bad wouldn't it?
| dynow wrote: |
| The difference in Poland though is the general cost of living along with the general quality of living. |
| simon_porter00 wrote: |
London:
average wage (in the UK) = 20k more or less (1,666 gbp p/m)
cost of flat in London = absolute minimum 1,200gbp p/m
Warsaw:
average teaching wage = 4k pln p/m
average cost of flat = 1,8k pln |
I'm doing what you've asked but .... there seems to be a problem.
Of course you could say that hiring a room in london would lower the cost - it would, but how many teachers do you know or knew in Poland that shared a flat? I don't know many, if any.
Your point about not comparing Poland to NYC is equally as inapplicable. It's not just London that's expensive. You can draw a line across the middle of the UK and the bit below the line would be almost as expensive and the average wage still stays the same. |
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AGoodStory
Joined: 26 Feb 2010
Posts: 738
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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| dynow wrote: |
simonporter00 wrote:
| Quote: |
| Try living in London mate - your 'average' wage in Poland will be like you've hit the jackpot. |
comparing london to warsaw is just silly. i wouldn't compare NYC prices to just about anywhere in the USA either. |
Comparisons of earnings in absolute terms may not be particularly helpful, you're right. But I find that comparing costs as a per centage of earnings is useful and informative. And a comparison of the cost of housing to earnings in a country seems particularly useful . |
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dynow
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1080
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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simonporter00 wrote:
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If you compare Poland to a developed country
Yup, done that. |
no.
I initially said, "The difference in Poland though is the general cost of living along with the general quality of living......If you compare Poland to a developed country, an "average" wage gets you a nice car and a good size apartment." I'm referring to the country as a whole. You're now taking 1 city in Poland and comparing it, of all places, to London. It's a different comparison for many reasons.
And regarding your example of expendable income after paying rent on an avg. wage in London vs. Warsaw, I'm not really sure what your point is. 2200zl left over in Warsaw, 500 quid left over in London.....with the exchange rate, it's the same amount of money and that's not even mentioning all the insane markups on everything in Poland from automobiles to electronics to foreign foods, etc.
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And of course, lifestyle. There are huge differences between London in general vs. Warsaw. Lots of people want to live in/visit London, very few dream of going to Warsaw or Poland for that matter. |
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lundjstuart
Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 211
Location: Warsaw, Poland
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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| dynow wrote: |
I initially said, "The difference in Poland though is the general cost of living along with the general quality of living......If you compare Poland to a developed country, an "average" wage gets you a nice car and a good size apartment." I'm referring to the country as a whole. You're now taking 1 city in Poland and comparing it, of all places, to London. It's a different comparison for many reasons. |
Instead of US always giving you examples, why don't you give us an example so we can all understand your point! |
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simon_porter00
Joined: 09 Nov 2005
Posts: 505
Location: Warsaw, Poland
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| Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:41 am Post subject: |
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I'm not going to waste more time than the 5 minutes it'll take me to write this because in my mind this argument is over and writing the same thing over and over again in different guises is a pointless activity.
You asked to compare Poland to a developed country. i chose two capitals having experience living there (even though similar figures could be used for most of the UK) and gave two cost examples of what life is like using average earning figures (both for the UK and for the main towns in Poland) and compared them to average figures for accommodation.
In most of the UK (I said from the middle of the UK down), you spend well over half your money p/m on a place to live, so you have less to spend on other things.
In Poland, even in the capital, you spend less than half on your accommodation, leaving you more to spend on other things.
You said this equates to roughly the same amount of money. It does, however your argument must be (as I can't see it'll be anything else) is that your money (the remainder after paying off your accom) in the UK will go further than in Poland. I am categorically telling you it won't. In the UK - running a car is much more expensive, bills more expensive, taxes more expensive, traveling/commuting more expensive, beer, cinema, going out etc etc more expensive.
I'm not sure which cherry-picked developed country you want me to compare Poland to? Not the UK obviously, not the USA (well NY at least). Canada? Australia? I would argue that a lot more natives will come from either the UK or the USA.
In short, as I said elsewhere, you come to Poland you got to expect different things. Expecting to live the same lifestyle on less money is a nonsense. Things are more expensive here than back home and vice versa - deal with it. However, I believe living in Poland is cheaper than living the UK and will give you more money in your back pocket assuming you earn 4k + zł per month. |
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sharter
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 878
Location: All over the place
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| Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:47 pm Post subject: harrumph |
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We could try the Economist's Big Mac Index.
Bragging about 600Zls....nah....it's just what the night cost.....it's the rounds that kill.
Look...for what it's worth the initial intention was to warn folks that Poland is now expensive, especially in the big cities. Comparing London to x,y and z is totally redundant. If I lived in London, I wouldn't be a teacher. I was a trainee options trader when I lived there many moons ago.
My beef is with teachers who blatently lie and tell prospective new chaps that they'll live well on 2,800Zl a month etc.
If you are a bloke, date, drink and enjoy going out then it ain't enough. If you live like a hermit, drink a pint through a straw, live on fast food and shop in Biedronka then you'll be just dandy.
I don't get the snipers either.....grow up I'd say. |
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delphian-domine
Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 674
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| Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:04 pm Post subject: Re: harrumph |
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| sharter wrote: |
My beef is with teachers who blatently lie and tell prospective new chaps that they'll live well on 2,800Zl a month etc.
If you are a bloke, date, drink and enjoy going out then it ain't enough. If you live like a hermit, drink a pint through a straw, live on fast food and shop in Biedronka then you'll be just dandy. |
They'll live as well as anyone in their own country in such a position will be. How many graduates in the USA, UK, Australia or New Zealand can really be living the high life at the bottom of their profession?
Expecting a newbie ESL teacher to be drinking whisky in hotel bars in Poland is just nuts, to say the least. But at the same time, the teacher can quite easily have a nice night drinking beer in the Rynek should he so wish - let's say he puts away 6 beers and takes a taxi home. That's going to set him back no more than 100zl at the very most.
But let's say he lives in accordance with his status, so he drinks 6 beers in a good pub and takes the night bus home. That's going to cost him about 40zl maximum - which is quite affordable.
At the end of the day, it's about expectations. If you think that you're going to come to teach English and be a highroller, it's not going to happen if you're new to the country. I know some people who have got quite wealthy off the back of teaching English here - but they've all been in the country for years.
But at the same time, they're not going to starve either. On 2,800zl a month in a big city (not Warsaw) - they're going to be more or less living the same life as a university graduate in the last couple of years. Not rich, not poor - just average. |
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dynow
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1080
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| Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:40 am Post subject: |
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sharter wrote:
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My beef is with teachers who blatently lie and tell prospective new chaps that they'll live well on 2,800Zl a month etc.
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Right on. "Prospective new chaps" get fed a lot of crap on forums like this about Poland and it usually comes from the guy that has been there for 6 months, essentially still on the Poland honeymoon who thinks it's sooooo cool that hot girls talk to him and he can go out and drink all the time. OR, even worse, the advice you get from the guy that is in total denial trying to make the country look better than it really is.....because he's stuck there.
delphian-domine wrote:
| Quote: |
| How many graduates in the USA, UK, Australia or New Zealand can really be living the high life at the bottom of their profession? |
I guess that would firstly depend on what someone considers to be "the high life" but in Poland, recent college grads are earning absolute dirt. 2,800zl net a month is unheard of for a 25 year old Pole who just took not only their first job after college, but often times their first job ever.
I've said it 1,000 times but for me, it wasn't so much the income that was an issue for me in Poland, it was simply the fact that I lived in Poland and that is far worse than 2,800zl net a month. The crummy roads and abismal highway system, insanely overpriced real estate, clothing and cars, awful weather, red tape, embarrassing customer service of any kind, no ethnic food worth eating, shoe box apartments......it's not just the fact that Poland is "overpriced", it's the fact that you overpay for.....for what? |
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sharter
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 878
Location: All over the place
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| Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:29 pm Post subject: that said |
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That said, I'd rather spend the summer in Poznan than the UK.
I wish I'd listened to my dad who always maintained that TEFL wasn't a realistic path to go down..................how wise he was. |
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saintmichi
Joined: 27 Aug 2009
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 12:06 am Post subject: Re: harrumph |
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| sharter wrote: |
Bragging about 600Zls....nah....it's just what the night cost.....it's the rounds that kill.
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rounds?! rounds of what?
i can't believe someone would blow close to a whole months rent on one night out unless it involved hotel rooms, cocaine and hookers |
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