Job Discussion Forums

[teacherus]

Hello everyone.
I am thinking of moving to Kazakhstan later this year. Looking at Astana now.

Anyone there at the moment, or been there within the last year?

What is it like? It looks very isolated on the map, but how is every day life there? What things do you like / dislike there etc?

Thanks for any info.

[kazpat]

I live in west Kazakhstan so I am not in Astana. There are a couple blogs by folks living in Astana that are pretty good for getting a feel for life there. Also the Peace Corps volunteers all have pages and many are updated regularly so they are a good source of general info. I think a few volunteers live in Astana oblast. If you don't find them let me know and I can point you in the right direction.

What is it like and everyday life is kind of broad. Cold and fun but difficult at times would be my answer. If you have any specific questions I would be happy to answer them. I can give you some of my insights though. Please keep in mind I only speak for myself.

One thing I would like to mention is the complete lack of any issue relating to race I have seen here. It seems to me as a mixed race (white/black) American that I am always reading about Asian countries or Russia and the issue of only wanting to hire white teachers. Be it students, parents, or just people in the street I have yet to experience any type of racism. No parents mad the teacher is not white etc. People here overall have been accepting of my color and I have had zero negative experiences because of it. Well, I almost through fists with one local dude in a restaurant but he was a known bandit who is also known to hate all foreigners and had a problem with the fact I have a Kazakh wife.

Another positive aspect of Kazkahstan at least for me is the students and the respect that they have towards teachers. When I first came I had to repeatedly tell my students that they do not have to stand when I enter the room and that they can use my first name. While local teachers are not paid too well they are held in extremely high regard and are treated as authority figures. As a native speaker this is only magnified. Most students are eager to learn and I have no issue with cell phones, talking or eating in class. A couple of older students have tested me but a gentle reminder of the rules was all that was needed. I should also add that the others students rebuked the offenders harshly. It was in Russian so I did not catch all of it but it went along the lines of "Don't f ing embarras us."

Cops on the street have asked for my passport and migration card and they check it and are on their way with a handshake. I am polite but firm that my documents are indeed in order so I have had no issues there. I speak Kazakh so that usually ends up being the focus of the conversation and not my documents as they are a bit shocked.

Negatives? The weather is tough. Very cold in the winter, -40 at times and hot in the summer. Sometimes the winds literally blow me off my feet and currently I am jumping from dry area to dry area because of the ocean sized puddles. Bureaucracy can be an issue. To get a visa you must have a University degree and the inviting agency must secure a work permit. To do this they have to meet many special conditions. There is a whole process in bringing a foreigner into the country and I would be happy to expand on it should you need the info.

In all I am very happy here, get a bit annoyed that Kazakhstan gets a bad rap at times because I find it a great place to live and work. Just be sure to pack some patience and understanding. President Nazarbayev has said that all Kazakhstanis should know three languages, Kazakh, Russian and English. His new university is also English speaking, add to that the oil and gas sectors requiring many employees to speak English and it makes for plenty of work.

I apoligize if I came off as a cheerleader, sure we have problems that other still developing countries have. However those are often highlighted as opposed to the positives.

[ibasiram]

Thanks, Kazpat, for the detailed information. That's a great reply

Definitely a lot of positives there. Good to see that your documents are indeed legal and in order. (I have heard the contrary about Kazakh contracts, paperwork, etc)

Do the police stop you every time they see you, or every time they hear you speaking English to one of your friends?

It's interesting that you speak Kazakh. Where did you learn it? I have heard that most people in cities speak Russian, and a lot of locals don't even know Kazakh that well. If I do go to Astana, I'd expect to be speaking Russian most of the time, but would love the opportunity to pick up, and even use some Kazakh sometimes.

What about the cost of living? you know, the usuals, doing the shopping, eating out etc, travelling in the country? I have heard that Astana in particular is very expensive...

Thanks a lot

[kazpat]

I have been stopped while walking only 3 or 4 times and I have been here a year, so it is very rare. When driving it is more frequent but not because I am a foreign face but just happen to be one of the cars that are checked. I never really speak English on the street except for when I am with my wife. I only know a couple of expats here who are Peace Corps volunteers. Once again keep in mind that I am not in Astana or Almaty where things are certainly different. So despite the horror stories found on the net I have had only professional and even friendly interactions with the police up until now. I think it depends allot on how you carry yourself and begin the conversation with them.

You are completely correct in your post about Kazakh. In most cities Russian is the dominate language. You are also correct in that some locals do not speak Kazakh that well. Even if they know Kazakh they seem programmed to speak to a foreigner in Russian. I will often speak in Kazakh only to be responded to in Russian until I ask them to speak in Kazakh. At this point I do speak Kazakh better than many locals which has actually caused a bit of embarrassment to them or even friction between us. I would think that in Astana it is very easy to get around using Russian. I hear that places like Shimkent and Kyzl Orda are different though.

I am "qyballa" which means son in law in Kazakh. My wife's parents while city dwellers now originally came from villages. They speak what we call "taza Kazakh" which means clean or perfect Kazakh. They have been great about accepting a foreign son in law but it has been very important that I learn the language and traditions so I put a great deal of time into Kazakh learning. One of the best resources that I used early on is free and on the web, it is a Peace Corps publication used by volunteers in the 90's. It is great for the basics and speaking in everyday situations.

I also found a nice little book here at a local book store, "Kazakh made easy" by Iraida Kybaeva. Most of my practice has come from getting out there and using the language every day, shopping, on the bus, etc. Our administrative assistant at work who I interact with on a daily basis speaks only Russian and Kazakh so that helps me. My wife was educated in America and speaks fluent English but we also speak in Kazakh sometimes at home to practice. I have a new textbook on the way from the states that will hopefully help me reach a more advanced level.

I would like to note that things are beginning to change. More and more young people are speaking Kazakh. At my school if I sit in the lobby before an adult class (18-30 years average age) I will hear mostly Russian. If I am in the lobby before a younger learner�s class I will hear mostly Kazakh. I also notice that many younger non ethnic Kazakhs are learning it. There has been a big push in recent years to encourage people to study Kazakh and at least from my perspective it is becoming more common. President Nazarbayev has set linguistic goals for the country and this has had a very positive effect on the learning of Kazakh and English.

The cost of living I think depends on how you live. If I eat like a local then it is relatively cheap at least for me. I buy 10 eggs for 110 tenge, which is like 80 cents or something. However, nice restaurants tend to be very expensive. I don't go out to bars and clubs, the 3 times I have been to a nightclub the prices were outrageous. I think like a 1000 or even 2000 tenge cover charge not to mention expensive drinks. My wife and I eat at pretty good restaurants once a week and it is usually 4,000 tenge for the two of us which equates to like 30 dollars. My gym for example costs 10 times what I would pay in the states. I have found clothes that are not Chinese and thus do not fall apart in quick order to also be quite expensive. A bus ride in my city is 45 tenge and taxis are about 300 tenge down to 200 if you bargain. Train tickets to anywhere in the country tend to be very cheap. I can get specific info on train travel prices if you would like, just let me know from what city to what city. I have flown to Moscow to catch flights to the states for as little as 150 dollars one way. Local companies also have very affordable tour packages to Turkey in the summer if you fancy a holiday at the beach. I am married, saving to buy a flat and start a family so I am pretty much a boring homebody. If you�re out on the town (paying for a local girlfriend (s) if you�re a guy) then I can see how it could be hard to make ends meet. Check out KZblog or Chris Merrimans blog for really good info on life in Astana.

I would like to reiterate what has been posted on Daves before. Do not come to Kazakhstan unless your employer has gotten you a work visa and gone through the proper channels and adhered to Kazakh law. Get a proper contract and make sure it conforms to Kazakh labor law. Make sure that the company registers you with the migration police and gets your migration card stamped. I would be extremely hesitant to come here with a company that says "ASAP" and claims to be able to arrange a visa for you on arrival after you come with a tourist or business visa. This probably means they are circumventing Kazakh law and this will only mean problems for you in the future. I was hired in September and got here in April after 7 months of submitting documents and satisfying conditions set down by the authorities here. I think much of the heartache some have had in KZ is that they signed on with employers who are not following the necessary process. I have found that when you do things legally there is no real quick fix.

If you have any more questions I am happy to try my best to answer.

[slaqdog]

Astana is a strange city. You can live well here but the social life is limited. Partly due to the weather-it is a long cold winter and boiling summer, and partly due to the weird nature of a new city; many wondrous new buildings, very few decent restaurants or pubs.
I like it mainly due to the good working conditions I enjoy but I know many teachers here do not want to do another year despite the good conditions.

[the dakota kid]

I was working there last year for about a month or so at a public schools. Virtually no Russian was heard or spoken, very few non-Kazakhs in the city, but I did enjoy the Turkish and Korean food there. I preferred my "home" of Pavlodar in the north of the country.

Would I move back to KZ? In a heartbeat! I think it all depends what you want or need. I concur with kazpats comments. Kazakhstan is constantly changing and should be appreciated and experienced by more people.

tdk

[almatythen]

Any suggestions?

A company has requested I submit a salary request, can anyone help me?

What would be the minimum monthly salary (in tenge) I should accept (housing NOT included in job offer) for a comfortable (family of two) lifestyle?
One bedroom apt is fine for my needs, but hopefully, something modern and nice!

[kazpat]

Your experience and background would help as well as expected contact hours etc.

Given your user name I assume your going to be headed to Almaty, I don't live there myself but I would be willing to bet you will need to have (monthly) minimum 60,000 to 70,000 tenge for a decent one room flat. A one bedroom here, meaning separate living room is referred to as a two room flat, that will be another 15,000 or 20,000 maybe? 40,000 to 50,000 tenge for groceries and eating out in that city will run you about 5,000 or more for two people each time you go out, maybe even more. I am married and boring but the times I went to a nightclub it was ridiculous, like 5,000 tenge cover and expensive drinks and I am in Western KZ.

I would figure that you need 200,000 tenge minimum to just get by in Almaty, just a rough estimate though.

Oh yeah, in the other thread you mentioned gym membership and fast internet, gyms are ultra expensive in KZ, at least good ones. I paid 250,000 tenge for mine, that is almost 1800 USD for a year, I was recently in Astana and asked around about prices there and it was 300,000 a year for a decent gym. Almaty is probably similar.

I think megaline high speed internet is like 5,000 tenge a month.

So add another 25,000 or so to your monthly expenses.

Hope this helps, Good Luck!

PS if your employer is not offering housing make sure you are at least informed about and preferably helped with registering with the migration authorities.

[almatythen]

Very cool! Thank you Kazpat!
I'll PM you with a few more details.

[almatythen]

Your your opinion: How necessary is it to have a car in the larger cities? (Almaty, Astana)?

[almatythen]

One more questions for the forum:

How trustworthy is the postal service for shipping personal effects to Kazakhstan?

Is there excessive duty?
Theft? Like boxes opened and items come up missing?

[kazpat]

Not necessary at all, buses are plentiful and run you about 60 tenge in those cities. Taxis both licensed and unlicensed are everywhere and you can flag them down with a wave of the hand. In my city taxis are about 200-300 tenge, they will try and gouge you for more being a foreigner, hang tough and don't give in. In Astana even my local wife was paying 500-700 tenge around the city. She did mention that Almaty was cheaper at like 200-300, more regular folks trying to make a buck we guessed.

I drive but beware that proper documents are necessary and road stops are very common. As a Kaz newbie a car may be more of a hassle then it is worth.

I saw you also posted about language. Russian is the lingua franca and widely used, to get around in Almaty or larger cities Russian is just fine. Some cities like Kyzl Orda are mainly Kazakh speaking. I speak Kazakh very well and speak only some Russian. I am a Kazakh son in law so that is important. If you a foreigner speaking Kazakh people will be extremely happy and or shocked to the point of just staring at you in awe.
You will make friends, get hugged by random people and get discounts.

I get packages from the states in 20-30 days with no problems.

[oxi]

Kazpat's got some good info there for you.

I've been out of Almaty a while now, but my wife's from there and goes back every summer. So my additional comments...

Most jobs I've seen advertised for Almaty in the last couple of years go around US$1000 a month (150,000KZT) with accommodation included. I've seen much higher for teaching English to oil company folk nearer the Caspian - never Almaty, not very often, and demanding higher qualifications.

Russian is still no. 1 in Almaty, but Kazakh's catching up. Russian people were trying to avoid learning it, but now it's stopping them get jobs. Most street signs now bilingual.

[almatythen]

Thanks for the input Kazpat & Oxi!

[ComradeBL]

Hi! I saw this posting on Kazakhstan. I received an offer from Nazarbayev Intellectual Schools and preparing to depart. I am interested in receiving any info out there from others associated with NIS or those living in Kazakhstan and am particularly interested in any info on the city of Taldykorgan that anyone can give me. The internet is not giving out too much info. Has anyone been there or live there? Is it an attractive city? Is there anything to do there? Is there any kind of social life? Any info at all would be very helpful. Also any info on teaching in Kazakhstan and those schools specifically would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!