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Trinley
Joined: 29 Apr 2010 Posts: 144
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Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 2:19 pm Post subject: cross-cultural communication confusion |
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Sorry this is a bit long, but I think it's an interesting topic if you're willing to read it.
I think a lot of teachers agree that confusion in communication is common between us and Asian cultures. I studied cross-cultural communication as part of my TESL training, but what I wonder is whether we should assume that most confusion is caused by cultural difference, or if we can say that sometimes communication in some Asian countries is just less efficient. That sounds very much against what I was taught, but the prevalence of instances makes me think it could be possible.
Here's a recent example -- a very minor thing, but it gets me a little annoyed and reminds me of my days in China where useful information seemed so hard to extract from people. I teach online for a Korean company. When problems occur (which they frequently do), they tell me but make no suggestion as to what I'm supposed to do about it. I just received an email stating bluntly that some emails to me are being rejected. That's it. They haven't indicated which emails, what dates, or from whom, but it feels vaguely like they're accusing me of blocking their emails. At the least, they are just putting the problem on my shoulders by telling me. They haven't suggested anything that I should do about it, and they know that I have received and replied to many of their emails in the past. After all, I received the one stating that I wasn't receiving others! So what is the use of telling me that without any reference to what should be done about it?
Another thing is I will ask a simple question like, "When is the payday?" Their response is to say "We will make a payment today." Okay, but that still doesn't tell me when payday is, and now I just have to ask for my pay again in the future. It would be more efficient to just choose a set of dates.
I often encounter this kind of communication failure where I'm left asking "more information, please?!" Can we say that's just poor communication on their part, or is that cross-cultural communication failure? |
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KayuJati
Joined: 21 Feb 2010 Posts: 313
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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:06 am Post subject: Re: cross-cultural communication confusion |
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Trinley wrote: |
Sorry this is a bit long, but I think it's an interesting topic if you're willing to read it.
I think a lot of teachers agree that confusion in communication is common between us and Asian cultures. I studied cross-cultural communication as part of my TESL training, but what I wonder is whether we should assume that most confusion is caused by cultural difference, or if we can say that sometimes communication in some Asian countries is just less efficient. That sounds very much against what I was taught, but the prevalence of instances makes me think it could be possible.
Here's a recent example -- a very minor thing, but it gets me a little annoyed and reminds me of my days in China where useful information seemed so hard to extract from people. I teach online for a Korean company. When problems occur (which they frequently do), they tell me but make no suggestion as to what I'm supposed to do about it. I just received an email stating bluntly that some emails to me are being rejected. That's it. They haven't indicated which emails, what dates, or from whom, but it feels vaguely like they're accusing me of blocking their emails. At the least, they are just putting the problem on my shoulders by telling me. They haven't suggested anything that I should do about it, and they know that I have received and replied to many of their emails in the past. After all, I received the one stating that I wasn't receiving others! So what is the use of telling me that without any reference to what should be done about it?
Another thing is I will ask a simple question like, "When is the payday?" Their response is to say "We will make a payment today." Okay, but that still doesn't tell me when payday is, and now I just have to ask for my pay again in the future. It would be more efficient to just choose a set of dates.
I often encounter this kind of communication failure where I'm left asking "more information, please?!" Can we say that's just poor communication on their part, or is that cross-cultural communication failure? |
Since your situation entails dealings with a Korean company, you may want to use the separate Korean forum to ask teachers there how best to deal with this. (Separate registration is required for the Korean forum.)
In the broader Asian context (not specific to Korea), I have found that we westerners tend to be "low context" whereas Asians are "high context". What that means practically, is that Asians understand the context in which communication takes place and thus, less needs to be stated explicitly. On the other hand, westerners are less tuned in to the context and expect everything to be spelled out in detail.
I don't know how that helps you except that, for example, the issue with the pay date may mean there is NO set pay date, and they expect you to accept that and deal with it. (I.e., carry a sufficient cash balance to tide you over periods when they may be paying late.) Other than that, it may be a take-it or leave-it case whereby if you complain too much, they may well look for another online teacher. With unemployment running high in western lands, that may not be hard to do. |
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Trinley
Joined: 29 Apr 2010 Posts: 144
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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:52 am Post subject: |
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Hi Kayu. Well, I do appreciate your reply, but I think you've missed the question. Yes, most of us teaching abroad were taught about high vs. low context. I hoped to indicate my awareness of the subject by saying that I had studied cross-cultural communication.
I know there is a lot of context in my original post, so to extract the actual question, I am asking if we should assume that any miscommunication is due to cultural differences, or if anyone truly believes that communication is less efficient in any Asian countries they have worked in.
I cited a couple of examples only to illustrate some of my recent experiences with inefficient communication. I wasn't actually looking for personal advice related to my example of the online job. The question is not restricted to Korea. I hope my question is clearer now. |
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steki47
Joined: 20 Apr 2008 Posts: 1029 Location: BFE Inaka
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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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Trinley wrote: |
or if anyone truly believes that communication is less efficient in any Asian countries they have worked in. |
Specifically in Japan, I have seen a lot of miscommunication among the Japanese. I have watched two people talking and one will suddenly started asking questions. "Who?" "What?" This happens in alll languages, but I often think that they don't always understand each other. Undefined pronouns, dropped subjects-basically too many assumptions for comprehension to be maintained.
In American society we place an emphasis on clear, succinct communication. We try to make everything very simple and direct. That may seem blunt or even a sign of low IQ to some. |
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KayuJati
Joined: 21 Feb 2010 Posts: 313
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Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:09 am Post subject: |
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Trinley wrote: |
Hi Kayu. Well, I do appreciate your reply, but I think you've missed the question. Yes, most of us teaching abroad were taught about high vs. low context. I hoped to indicate my awareness of the subject by saying that I had studied cross-cultural communication.
I know there is a lot of context in my original post, so to extract the actual question, I am asking if we should assume that any miscommunication is due to cultural differences, or if anyone truly believes that communication is less efficient in any Asian countries they have worked in. |
Well, after working for 16 years in Asia/SE Asia (and in three languages), I could not agree that communication is less efficient in Asia. Again, I would throw the reasoning back to the high- and low-context issue.
You are expecting more information from them than they are willing to give or feel is necessary. So, from your perspective it may appear to be "inefficient" communication. From their perspective it may be that you are too "clueless" as to what is necessary to know. So yeah, I will go with the "cultural difference" choice.
FWIW, I have been frustrated many times with the seeming lack of information presented. But I have learned that perhaps that info was not that important and went with the flow. If it is really important, then I continued pressing, politely, and eventually got my answer. |
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Ariadne
Joined: 16 Jul 2004 Posts: 960
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Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 2:03 am Post subject: |
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I'm in China. Sometimes I'll have a Chinese friend or student with me when I need to buy something or get some information at a shop or office. I will ask a question that SHOULD involve a yes or no answer, but the conversation in Chinese seems to last forever! I've never been able to understand why it takes so long to say, "No, we do not have the shirt in blue." Can any of you communications experts explain this to me?
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steki47
Joined: 20 Apr 2008 Posts: 1029 Location: BFE Inaka
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Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 3:59 am Post subject: |
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Ariadne wrote: |
I've never been able to understand why it takes so long to say, "No, we do not have the shirt in blue." Can any of you communications experts explain this to me? |
I don't know about China, but in Japan the answers can be long because they are generally filled with a lot of polite expressions that have value if no directly translatable meaning in English.
Also, they tend to build up to the information so be prepared for a lot of "fluff". No thesis statments and the good stuff is at the end. Drove me nuts at first, but I adjusted.
Are the Chinese really vague and obtuse with their responses? |
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KayuJati
Joined: 21 Feb 2010 Posts: 313
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Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 7:00 am Post subject: |
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In Malaysia there is a funny segment in a music video that shows the culture surrounding requests for information. A guy is looking for a girl who was walking in the vicinity and he asks four people sitting around a sidewalk table which direction she went. All point in four opposite directions! In other words, they would rather give the wrong answer than to admit that they do not know or have an answer for you. This is the shame culture at work. They do not want confrontation, and not having an answer risks confrontation or loss of face. |
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KayuJati
Joined: 21 Feb 2010 Posts: 313
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Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 7:15 am Post subject: |
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Trinley, I am aware that you wrote that you studied cross-cultural communication but let me explain a little more fully why such studies do not always prepare a person for understanding cross-cultural communication breakdowns.
Most classes on ccc deal with surficial expressions: e.g., Malaysians point with their thumb whereas westerners point with an extended finger; Malaysians summon each other by waving their fingers with their palms downwards, whereas westerners do it with palms upward; and etc. But these are just descriptive differences and do not deal with the underlying belief systems that give rise to the differences.
For one to understand another culture well, one must learn the language to a certain extent, read children's stories (which are used to enculturate children) and know something about the myths/heroes/legends of that culture. It is this underlying base that gives form and meaning to the overlying surficial expressions.
One of the best books that I have read on this subject is The Geography of Thought by Richard E. Nisbett.
Last edited by KayuJati on Sat Jun 18, 2011 7:25 am; edited 1 time in total |
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KayuJati
Joined: 21 Feb 2010 Posts: 313
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Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 7:22 am Post subject: |
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Ariadne wrote: |
I'm in China. Sometimes I'll have a Chinese friend or student with me when I need to buy something or get some information at a shop or office. I will ask a question that SHOULD involve a yes or no answer, but the conversation in Chinese seems to last forever! I've never been able to understand why it takes so long to say, "No, we do not have the shirt in blue." Can any of you communications experts explain this to me?
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Okay, I will give a shot at an answer, for I have experienced the same response.
They don't have the shirt in blue. If they did, it would be on the shelf or hanging on the rack. Thus, they don't want to say NO to you for the reason of shame (loss of face). In their mind, they might be thinking ("Why does she ask for a color when it is clear no such color shirt is available as clearly can be seen?")
But, this doesn't mean you should not ask. I was in a store recently and they had nice red shirts hanging on the rack. The largest size available was XL and I needed XXL. I asked if they had XXL and it turns out they did, down below. But if they didn't have the larger size, I would have been prepared for a shy and wordless smile that meant "Sorry, sir, we don't have." This is how they respond in Malaysia.
In China, where I lived for a while, usually the clerks would laugh if they couldn't answer the question, or didn't want to answer. (You have been in China long enough, I suspect, to know that the Chinese laugh for many reason, but rarely because something is funny.)
Last edited by KayuJati on Sun Jun 19, 2011 12:16 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Trinley
Joined: 29 Apr 2010 Posts: 144
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Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the replies. So, to extract direct answers from these replies, most of you -- apart from steki dealing with those dropped pronouns in Japan -- are saying that you think communication is NOT less efficient in other countries, and that any miscommunication must be due to cultural differences. Is that correct?
(You guys are more indirect than you think!) |
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steki47
Joined: 20 Apr 2008 Posts: 1029 Location: BFE Inaka
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Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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KayuJati wrote: |
One of the best books that I have read on this subject is The Geography of Thought by Richard E. Nisbett. |
I highly recommend this book. Read it my first year in Japan and lent to a few Western ex-pats. Gave it to my dad as well.
That book really spelled out fundamental differences such as field-dependent vs. field-independent, nouns vs. verbs etc. |
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KayuJati
Joined: 21 Feb 2010 Posts: 313
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Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 12:14 am Post subject: |
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Trinley wrote: |
Thanks for the replies. So, to extract direct answers from these replies, most of you -- apart from steki dealing with those dropped pronouns in Japan -- are saying that you think communication is NOT less efficient in other countries, and that any miscommunication must be due to cultural differences. Is that correct?
(You guys are more indirect than you think!) |
Yes, that is correct. And, yes, we are indirect.
Great topic, BTW. |
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Glenski

Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 2:38 am Post subject: |
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steki47 wrote: |
Specifically in Japan, I have seen a lot of miscommunication among the Japanese. I have watched two people talking and one will suddenly started asking questions. "Who?" "What?" This happens in alll languages, but I often think that they don't always understand each other. Undefined pronouns, dropped subjects-basically too many assumptions for comprehension to be maintained. |
If they are talking to me, yes, I agree. However, I have not seen/heard of such problems when J speakers are talking to each other. In fact, they often smile or laugh when I tell them that I'm the one who's lost because of lack of subject or pronouns.
Quote: |
I don't know about China, but in Japan the answers can be long because they are generally filled with a lot of polite expressions that have value if no directly translatable meaning in English.
Also, they tend to build up to the information so be prepared for a lot of "fluff". No thesis statments and the good stuff is at the end. Drove me nuts at first, but I adjusted. |
Japanese also don't tend to want to give negative (i.e., bad) information. So, instead, they will hedge and not even give a direct yes or no.
Quote: |
So, to extract direct answers from these replies, most of you -- apart from steki dealing with those dropped pronouns in Japan -- are saying that you think communication is NOT less efficient in other countries, and that any miscommunication must be due to cultural differences. Is that correct? |
Between Asian person and non-Asian, I would say a lot of miscommunication comes from culture, yes. Some from purely bad translation. Between Asians of the same culture, I would add that they may not feel the communication is confused or less efficient, but I do. They spend so much time on politeness and niceties that a lot of time (efficiency) is wasted. But, that's their way and we can't expect it to change. |
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steki47
Joined: 20 Apr 2008 Posts: 1029 Location: BFE Inaka
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Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 4:13 am Post subject: |
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Glenski wrote: |
Between Asians of the same culture, I would add that they may not feel the communication is confused or less efficient, but I do. They spend so much time on politeness and niceties that a lot of time (efficiency) is wasted. But, that's their way and we can't expect it to change. |
Great points there! I would say that cultures not only have different styles of communication, but also different purposes of communication.
Even among Americans there are discernibly different patterns between male and female speech. Stands to reason that Asians and Westerners would have quite different approaches to communication. |
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