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bluetortilla

Joined: 18 Apr 2006 Posts: 815 Location: Henan
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Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 4:10 am Post subject: Now For Something Completely Different |
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MOD EDIT
Can anyone tell me good sites to go to look for non-ESL positions in countries in Asia besides Japan? I've been underemployed for the last two years and even on welfare at times, and I'm pretty much ready to throw in the towel here. There is nothing 'wrong' with me as far as I know, if that's your suspicion.
I think I've had enough of Japan after 20 years, and have always had the travel bug deep in me anyway.
I'm not sure what to list as far as my background goes. I've taught English here in Japan for 20 years, I'm 47, do have a BA but no master's, was an exchange student at Sophia University, do have the 1st level in the JLPT, ran an English school for over 10 years, and was a pioneer 'ALT' for 4 years (the kind that designs, implements the curriculum, and teaches solo- not the muppet kind). I have done well in Japan in the past and know a thing or two about business, promoting, and marketing. I can also translate and to some extent interpret Japanese in a business setting.
I don't know if any of that helps. I'm just trying to find good 'grass roots' forums like this one that could lead me in the right direction. So far in my searches all I've been able to find are agents' sites of the spamming variety.
Well, thanks in advance. I'd appreciate any help I can get. |
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sigmoid
Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 1276
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KayuJati
Joined: 21 Feb 2010 Posts: 313
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Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 12:48 am Post subject: |
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Non-ESL means either teaching content subjects or else working outside of education. For the former, you probably need to pick up an advanced degree; for the latter, you need to highlight what skills you bring to the table when interviewing with companies.
One good way to get introduced to a new country is to study in one of their universities. That way, you can begin to learn the language and meet students from various cities and provinces and get an idea of your next step.
Let's use Malaysia as an example. At the university or college level, to teach content subjects, you need to have a Masters in that subject. One can teach academic English (composition, grammar, report writing) but that would still require a Masters degree. Some international schools (primary and secondary) won't require the Masters, but you will have stiff competition from certified teachers from back home.
In business, Malaysian companies can hire expats who bring a skill that is not too prevalent amongst Malaysian graduates. Can you program in Java? Have you ever designed an earthquake-resistant building? Can you model the transport and fate of radioactive chemicals in the environment?
One skill that you appear to have is that of Japanese fluency; is that correct? If you were to learn Malay, Malaysia's national language, then you could fill a niche in being able to do translations amongst the three languages (English, Japanese, Malay). Adding a fourth and fifth language would take you even farther. |
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bluetortilla

Joined: 18 Apr 2006 Posts: 815 Location: Henan
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Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 3:50 am Post subject: |
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With all due respect surely that can't be the end all of work opportunities in booming Asia.
Technical people (which I'm not) are usually assigned their post, aren't they? I knew an oil rig engineer like that.
I'm thinking more about commerce. Surely there are Westerners buying and selling like everyone else? I have a friend my age making a good living off of exporting Pokemon, for example.
In any case, as far as English education goes, the older you get the harder it becomes because even with a masters (these days a PhD), in Japan at least you are not likely to get tenure anywhere and hence your job situation becomes more and more tenuous. I'm too old anyway. The only chance I have is in establishing a school again in an economy and industry I don't have a lot of confidence in. Anything else in education, unless your better half has a good position, is simply living year to year, whether as a low level ALT in Japan or in a more lucrative stint in Korea.
For that reason I was wondering about expat, entrepreneurial forums. Buying and selling using my Japanese skills perhaps- seems possible to me. |
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tttompatz

Joined: 06 Mar 2010 Posts: 1951 Location: Talibon, Bohol, Philippines
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Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 4:26 am Post subject: |
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bluetortilla wrote: |
With all due respect surely that can't be the end all of work opportunities in booming Asia.
Technical people (which I'm not) are usually assigned their post, aren't they? I knew an oil rig engineer like that.
I'm thinking more about commerce. Surely there are Westerners buying and selling like everyone else? I have a friend my age making a good living off of exporting Pokemon, for example.
In any case, as far as English education goes, the older you get the harder it becomes because even with a masters (these days a PhD), in Japan at least you are not likely to get tenure anywhere and hence your job situation becomes more and more tenuous. I'm too old anyway. The only chance I have is in establishing a school again in an economy and industry I don't have a lot of confidence in. Anything else in education, unless your better half has a good position, is simply living year to year, whether as a low level ALT in Japan or in a more lucrative stint in Korea.
For that reason I was wondering about expat, entrepreneurial forums. Buying and selling using my Japanese skills perhaps- seems possible to me. |
Your problem is that, unless you are bringing lots of money to the table as an entrepreneur (foreign investor visa) or have a job and get a visa as a treaty trader (work in the country of choice but working for an offshore company), you have nothing to offer a potential employer outside of the education field AND NOTHING TO BASE A VISA ON.
Your experience has been in the education field for the last 20 years. You are not up to speed on international trading, business relationship mgmt, international sales or international marketing (PPPP) of new concepts to old markets or old ideas to new markets) so what will you do? With an MBA you may have had a chance.
Even more important is what can you do that a local cannot (usually a visa requirement) if you are not an agent of an established company and working as an intra-company transfer into the country of your choice.
ESL may suck in Japan but it is booming in many other markets.
The way I see things, from your original post is that you have 3 choices:
1) stay in ESL and change countries (move where you can make a decent living). A BA and 20 years teaching ESL doesn't leave you very high on the list for moving into other fields.
2) get re-qualified at something else and find a new job.
3) find a source of financing (US$100k +) and get an investors/traders visa in the country of your choice and give it your best shot.
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bluetortilla

Joined: 18 Apr 2006 Posts: 815 Location: Henan
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Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:34 am Post subject: |
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Thanks. Good points.
1. The problem with ESL is that it offers no long-term security in any country as far as I can tell. Otherwise I wouldn't mind. I enjoy teaching.
2. Saving 100 k isn't that big of a problem with persistence and a steady income. But I do have permanent residency here in Japan so essentially I'm 'in' Asia. So what's to stop me from starting out by peddling low-volume goods? Do I need visas to do that? What if I just go to the markets or factories, buy on location, and sell elsewhere? I'm sure there are duties involved but having established a contact couldn't I just get things shipped to me? Seems like a start anyway.
Sorry- I'm not trying to talk about other jobs on an ESL site. But what do the old-timers like me think? Is ESL going to pull you through? I have a friend here, 52, with a good Masters in TESOL but major universities will outright tell him that they won't hire him because of his age.
My other option is to start up another school here, which I might try on a limited basis. Really tough market now though. Then again, maybe I'm just not shrewd enough...Having said that, all of my colleagues are having a rough time here in ESL. |
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bluetortilla

Joined: 18 Apr 2006 Posts: 815 Location: Henan
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Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:39 am Post subject: |
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Thanks. Good points.
1. The problem with ESL is that it offers no long-term security in any country as far as I can tell. Otherwise I wouldn't mind. I enjoy teaching.
2. Saving 100 k isn't that big of a problem with persistence and a steady income. But I do have permanent residency here in Japan so essentially I'm 'in' Asia. So what's to stop me from starting out by peddling low-volume goods? Do I need visas to do that? What if I just go to the markets or factories, buy on location, and sell elsewhere? I'm sure there are duties involved but having established a contact couldn't I just get things shipped to me? Seems like a start anyway.
Sorry- I'm not trying to talk about other jobs on an ESL site. But what do the old-timers like me think? Is ESL going to pull you through? I have a friend here, 52, with a good Masters in TESOL but major universities will outright tell him that they won't hire him because of his age.
My other option is to start up another school here, which I might try on a limited basis. Really tough market now though. Then again, maybe I'm just not shrewd enough...Having said that, all of my colleagues are having a rough time here in ESL. So it's imperative for us to think of options. |
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tttompatz

Joined: 06 Mar 2010 Posts: 1951 Location: Talibon, Bohol, Philippines
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Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 7:23 am Post subject: |
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bluetortilla wrote: |
Thanks. Good points.
1. The problem with ESL is that it offers no long-term security in any country as far as I can tell. Otherwise I wouldn't mind. I enjoy teaching.
2. Saving 100 k isn't that big of a problem with persistence and a steady income. But I do have permanent residency here in Japan so essentially I'm 'in' Asia. So what's to stop me from starting out by peddling low-volume goods? Do I need visas to do that? What if I just go to the markets or factories, buy on location, and sell elsewhere? I'm sure there are duties involved but having established a contact couldn't I just get things shipped to me? Seems like a start anyway.
Sorry- I'm not trying to talk about other jobs on an ESL site. But what do the old-timers like me think? Is ESL going to pull you through? I have a friend here, 52, with a good Masters in TESOL but major universities will outright tell him that they won't hire him because of his age.
My other option is to start up another school here, which I might try on a limited basis. Really tough market now though. Then again, maybe I'm just not shrewd enough...Having said that, all of my colleagues are having a rough time here in ESL. |
1) the problem with ESL is that UNLESS you are married in or have some other reason for residence in the country you are working in it is unstable (you exist from contract to contract).
That said however, ESL, in the majority of Asia, is a growth industry and is showing no sign of slowing down. Go abroad, work a few years and try to bank enough in the 12 years you have left to retire to a quiet life somewhere.
As to age, yes, agism is a factor but I am older than you and still have MORE THAN enough work and continually get offers.
2) If you travel to work or do business in another country you will USUALLY require a visa to do so.
If you intend to establish a company in another country you will need a visa to do so as well as the required minimum of cash (as mandated by the government concerned) as to get set up as a direct foreign investment.
If you intend to try to sell stuff (Japanese as an example) into other markets (China) you will either need to do it by Internet (has its own problems to deal with - join the list of spammers) or establish a presence in the 2nd country (got bucks for a visa?).
IF you intend to go abroad and buy stuff to import into Japan then you better get up to speed on the export rules and requirements of the market you are buying from, the rules for importation into Japan from that country (rules and tariffs vary depending on the source of the stuff and the nature of the product) and the logistics of getting your stuff from A to B.
Bottom line: if you intend to travel to another country to do business in that country you will usually require a business visa unless your country of passport has a bilateral treaty allowing you entry for short term business visits but you cannot accept remuneration on said visit. (you can go in, take orders or meet potential clients but you can't take their money).
International business has its own web of rules to negotiate and it takes years to master them. I wish you good luck as an entrepreneur or in your job search.
And almost as an afterthought, this was NOT meant to dissuade you but just to give you some idea of what you are looking at.
If you had some specific countries in mind it would be easier to give more accurate information as to the requirements for investors or treaty trader visas.
.
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bluetortilla

Joined: 18 Apr 2006 Posts: 815 Location: Henan
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Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you sir, that's very helpful.
By the way, I said it wouldn't be that hard to save up 100 k USD but I was thinking 10 k USD
I have met people buying and selling abroad who told me it wasn't that difficult. Surely, when you say a 'business visa,' you don't mean the 100 k visa.
Basically, I'm sincere in what I do and do the best I can. If you're telling me that I can earn enough money at my age with ESL then I will certainly investigate it more. I am however pretty much exclusively interested in Asia. I'm certainly highly capable and I'm not ready to lay down on the roadside and wait for the end just yet! |
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tttompatz

Joined: 06 Mar 2010 Posts: 1951 Location: Talibon, Bohol, Philippines
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Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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I have one last thing on the topic of changing countries and ESL.
DON'T COMPARE salaries. The cost of living is very different from country to country.
Compare qualify of living and net SAVINGS at the end of the day.
I was earning MORE money per month in Korea but here in Thailand I actually SAVE more (US17k-18k per anum now as compared to about US12k-14k per anum in Korea) and I have a very similar standard of living. Admittedly, I am NOT on an entry level 35k baht job.
Look for positions in China in the 10k RMB range. They usually include housing (and utilities) as well as a reasonably generous vacation package and airfare on completion of each contract.
Spend a year on the ground in Thailand and do some networking and you should easily find something in the 50-60k baht range but lots of side work to pad the bank account.
Vietnam has jobs in the US2k per month range with living expenses at about 30-50% of that.
Korea is tough to get into if you are on the high side of 50 but if you are on the ground it is usually not that hard to get a job.
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bluetortilla

Joined: 18 Apr 2006 Posts: 815 Location: Henan
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Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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Very good point, one we often miss upon hearing salaries. Actually, at the moment I'm writing web content for a pittance in between teaching just to survive here in Japan. I try to live on 800 yen per day. It's amazing. What am I? 'The new educated poor?' Being poor is not bad at all actually. It's the fear of going into sub-survival levels that bothers me.
I have a fledging private teaching business that has gone almost nowhere in a year, and a job at at a 'prestigious' school that's not bad except for the fact that it's only 196 hours per year. I am not lazy. Things are tough!
But what you've told me cheers me up in many ways, and is somewhat disappointing in others. I hope to find a balance. Thanks.
No interest in Korea by the way! : ) |
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