Job Discussion Forums

[ScottishGringo]

Doing a basic TEFL course next month to see how I like it with the idea of going abroad and landing a job. I've had a browse at the China job adverts section and it seems that monthly wages vary widly (from 4,000 to 16,000 Yuan), working hours from 18 to 30hrs a week, some jobs offer apartments free, some reimburse flight costs, some seem to be happy with anyone who is native English speaking and has a degree others want at least 2 years TEFL experience etc. Making it quite difficult to work out what a newbie like myself should expect and whether having my degree and 20hr TEFL will be enough as I'm a native speaker.

Can anyone break down what a reasonable monthly wage & amount of hours worked a week would be and whether I should strive to get a job that pays for my airfare and apartment or not? Also is it possible to try and get a job without being in the country or do I need to be on the ground?

Any info on living costs would be appreciated too as I've no idea how much money I'd need to survive on.

Cheers!

[Laurence]

re: living costs,
this has been discussed ad nauseum on here - allow me to summarise:

Things that are cheaper in China than western countries:
- taxis
- train tickets
- bottled/canned beer from shops
- massage
- 'massage'
- DVDs and Xbox games (ahoy there matey! only 5 yuan each!)
- backstreet clothing stores
- meals in local restaurants..
..although I would argue that the price of food in most cheap local restaurants reflects their true value: questionably-sourced food served from a dirty kitchen by grumpy, over-worked and underpaid waiters,
or outdoor BBQ smothered in roadside dust.

I think I'm in the minority here though - for many, hair in meals and runny poo is all part of the fun.

Some things are at least as expensive as in Western countries (but minus the customer service):
- electronic stuff (computers, TVs, appliances..)
- nice bars
- gym membership
- foreign restaurants
- hospital fees
- clothing in an official shop, like in the mall
- running a car
- schooling your kids
- buying a house..
OK lot of people say that rent is cheap in China,
and it is, especially in cities of less than 2 million people (not so much in first tier cities though)
but notice how the walls tend to crack,
how insulation is not sealed,
how you can't drink the water,
how the interior is fitted out in chipboard,
how the power points spark as you plug things in,
and how apartment buildings seldom last more than 20 years..
If you want to rent something comparable to western standards, you will have to pay luxury prices.


Basically if your rent is paid for (as it is in many cases) you can keep your monthly costs really low (+/- 3500 yuan per month) by sticking to the lifestyle in my first list.

But for many foreign teachers who want to take life seriously, living in China becomes increasingly frustrating.

(sorry that was probably rather long for a summary.)

re: normal salary/hours,
first you should figure out what type of work you want to do.
Corporate training? School? Language training centre? Kinderversity?Universigarten?

[ScottishGringo]

Thanks for taking the time to respond. I'm not sure what type of work I want to do, what would be open to someone with no experience and just a 20hr basic TEFL certificate?

I don't care much for electronics or gadgets (the only thing I own is a phone - though I had a netbook which I broke), nice bars (as in flashy upmarket places?) don't interest me, I never go to the gym here so doubt I would in China, I can eat chinese food no problem, I don't drive, I have no kids, I don't plan to buy a house so none of that is an issue. I'd probably be happy enough with a fairly simple apartment, even just a one bedroom place with a bathroom would suit me as long as it's clean and safe.

3500 yuan a month is pretty good, not too much at all.

[GuestBob]

[teechagimme]

Corporate training? School? Language training centre? Kinderversity?Universigarten?

Can you explain these things?

I too am looking into China. I have 2 years of experience in South Korea and a newly minted CELTA certificate. I don't mind working with Children, it seems to pay a little better, but I'm not sure that it would be my first choice. The motivated adults that I taught during my CELTA course were like a dream.

[nickpellatt]

[nickpellatt]

I wrote the last post very late last night, and I hope some of it is of use. I know you probably arent impressed with my comment in another of your threads, but I do try to help as well ya' know!

I do understand where you are coming from, but it isnt always as easy as being a native speaker and getting your travel funded for you. Do bear in mind that almost all jobs will require you to sign a 12 month contract, and getting flight money home is conditional on this. The free accomodation is too, and so if it goes wrong and isnt what you want, you lose flight money home, the roof over your head and possibly even the visa too. Having back up money (and lots of it) can be essential.

The job of TEFL isnt always a holiday, some make it so, but for many and especially those new to it, it can be a slog. Im going to share two real life situations I have seen as I know you are a little unsure (and perhaps not really keen) about EFL.

My last China job was in an adult training centre. Small classes of motivated adults, and a low workload. Perfect! These adult students give up work and pay quite high fees for classes. One of my FT colleagues was quite keen on giving EFL a go, but for one reason or another, he couldnt engage either the material, the classes, and the students. As a result....he had real issues in the classroom with students complaining, missing his classes and being pretty hard on him. He was then asked to attend disciplinary meetings from time to time and had his classes observed. His problems continued and he had classes removed from his schedule and was asked to observe other classes instead of teach. This was all with a view to getting his classes up to the required standard, and the employer was fair .... but it meant he had quite an unpleasant time at work for a good few months.

But if he quit...he would have lost his flight home money, the roof above his head, and possibly had his visa taken away too.

Ill share an experience from my first job in China too. It was in 2006 and I was part of a group who went to a Middle School as 3 - 9 month volunteers. There were 5 of us, and he had a 1 month orientation program before we went into class. The orientation prepared us well for China, and taught us a little of the language, but the prep for classes was just 'Here is a class of 40 students, go in and speak English to them, Ill be back to collect you in 40 minutes'. That may sound easy ... but its pretty tough to walk into a class of random students for 40 minutes. And we had to do this 12 times a week. One guy hated it and walked out after 2 or 3 days of 'teaching', two of the girls werent very good at it and started to get students complaining because they didnt do much....and this meant the school staff started complaining to the girls. Those girls didnt make a full month before they left either. So out of the 5 of us, in a fairly easy low workload environment....only 2 completed 3 months as scheduled.

Both of the above roles were quite good ones too. Nice employers, nice work schedules, and generally pretty nice students too. If you land a job that turns out to be less nice, in a city that doesnt suit you, and a climate that you dont like.....This job could be worse than the call centre gig back home.

The advice I gave in another thread about trying to get some summer work is good advice....and there are lots of jobs around the UK now. Arriving in China with limited funds and limited experience could work out to be the best thing you have ever done....but if its goes wrong....it might well be the worst!

[xjgirl]

very good post concerning cost of living by laurence

[Zero]

I agree with Laurence's post on cost of living, except one point. Hospital fees in China, by and large, are much cheaper than in the west. (I'm thinking of the U.S.) However, quality issues play in.

The standard hospital in China in say, a second-tier city, looks very shabby compared to an American hospital. Dirty, poor customer service, some questionable treatments. You can sometimes get excellent care, but you just never really know.

To get something that looks like western-style care, you will indeed pay through the nose. It's only available in Beijing and Shanghai, and maybe Guangzhou. It may cost even more than in the west. And if you need a specialist, these western doctors have to refer you. To whom? You guessed it: the local Chinese doctors. So what are you really paying for?

The key point is, you simply cannot recreate the medical care of a western country, at any price. The system isn't there. It's a major disadvantage of being in China. If the diplomat or high-level execs encounter anything beyond a common cold, they head for Hong Kong, Singapore or their home country. It's one reason China is still considered a "hardship posting" within multinational corporations.

[ScottishGringo]

Nickpellat top posts, cheers for that!

So much to consider. I can't even figure out where I want to go country wise yet. Need to weigh up all the options.

[nickpellatt]

Well China is defintely possible. Ive tried to tell it like it is, or how it can be. It can be an awesome job and China can be a great place ...... well, I like it anyway.

It can also be horrid though, and some people dont get on with it at all. My experience is fairly limited, but I have met people who couldnt do it at all, and that was in no small part to the teaching. It can be a fairly easy job, but it only really gets easy when you do have some training, commitment, and perhaps a little flair for it. If you dont have those, the travel and teach thing can become real old real fast. Ive tried to show that in the few examples I listed.

I know you said you are too busy with work commitments to try summer teaching work ... I still think its a winner, and if you are planning on leaving the UK soonish, Im suggesting quitting what you do now and do the teaching prior to going.

re - cost of living...I havent lived in big cities, but in smaller places you can easily live on 1500-2000 RMB a month. This still allows the odd meal in an OK'ish restaurant, the odd night on beers in sensibly priced places. Long term living can get expensive, but short term...its all good.

Im guessing you are Scottish? Do you have a strong accent???? You might have to calm it down for Skype interviews if so...a neutral accent is often preferred.

[TheHanMan]

[ScottishGringo]

[Zero]

I watched Trainspotting three times and over the course, my understanding went from about 15 percent to about 100 percent. Then I read a lot of Irvine Welsh novels and realized the language in the movie had actually been toned down about 90 percent from the book, that is to say, most of the localisms had been removed.

Lately I've been watching "The Scheme" on youtube. It's a reality show based in the housing projects of Edinburgh. With many of the characters, I can't understand a word. It's like they're speaking Dutch or something. But then I hear Scottish politicians and newscasters, and they sound almost like Americans, nothing too distinctive or difficult about their speech at all.

Funny place, Scotland.

[ScottishGringo]

Oi! The scheme is NOT based in our beautiful capital Edinburgh nor anywhere near it, closer to Glasgow in fact.