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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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 Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Ikki wrote: |
| And to the other opposing legion of superheroes: Get off your high horse! Good Lord! 'You must be an "ambassador" for your country!' Talk about a crock of hooey. The day I'll be an ''ambassador" for my country in Japan is the day I'll be...well...appointed ambassador for my country in Japan...with the ridiculous pay & perks such parasitic la-di-das get. With the possible exception of JET, what great crusade do some of you think we're supposed to be on!? |
Obviously, you don't realize that one does not have to actively pursue the crusade. By sheer virtue of being in any foreign land, you are automatically your home country's ambassador. Don't be the "ugly American" (or whatever equivalent exists with other nationalities), that's all we're saying. |
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TokyoLiz
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1548
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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Ikki, the city I worked for during my JET placement would only take commonwealth women ALTs because the first American man they brought in had problematic behaviour. It is not your perception of foreigners that matters.
And one person's total a$$hat behaviour can set the next person up for a rough ride.
Is being decent so hard?! |
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rxk22
Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629
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| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 12:37 am Post subject: |
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| TokyoLiz wrote: |
Ikki, the city I worked for during my JET placement would only take commonwealth women ALTs because the first American man they brought in had problematic behaviour. It is not your perception of foreigners that matters.
And one person's total a$$hat behaviour can set the next person up for a rough ride.
Is being decent so hard?! |
No, but people are making what the TS said to be something else. He just isn't that motivated to teach, which is understandable. it's not like he is planning on passing out in the streets.
Doing enough to get by is no big deal. Not sure why people are jumping on the TS and Ikki so hard. |
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rxk22
Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629
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| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 12:45 am Post subject: |
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| Ikki wrote: |
Man, these threads can be a hoot!  The OP, ostensibly serious, wants an EFL gig in Japan to finance the "good life" & because the great Yamato race "fascinates" him. Tell ya what mate: you take that, say, non-JET dispatch ALT job. 220K/mo. Maybe no pay during school breaks. 50K a month for rent(and God knows what kind of apartment you'll get). No paid airfare. Quite likely screwed out of overtime, pension, health insurance, etc. Maybe two hrs. commuting daily. You'll find out how "fascinating" Japan is. "Fascinating, fascinating" stuff indeed!
And to the other opposing legion of superheroes: Get off your high horse! Good Lord! 'You must be an "ambassador" for your country!' Talk about a crock of hooey. The day I'll be an ''ambassador" for my country in Japan is the day I'll be...well...appointed ambassador for my country in Japan...with the ridiculous pay & perks such parasitic la-di-das get. With the possible exception of JET, what great crusade do some of you think we're supposed to be on!? Do you think someone who is silly enough to take the aforementioned job conditions should then also be a paragon of "professionalism" and virtue in representing "their" country(the one that couldn't provide a univ. grad. with a decent job back home?)?
Man, some of you are demented.... |
Agreed, people here went a bit overboard about being a perfect example, otherwise you shouldn't teach.
Honestly with how much I get paid, I think showing up and going though the motions is about how much they are paying for. I have a total of 4 months a year where I get paid a total of 50万which is def not enough to live on. Though I do, do a good job, I should really just scrape by, as they are paying for that level. got a 2 hour commute as well. As i have to take the bus. I can't afford a car on my salary.
While at an eikaiwa, you'll prolly get paid a bit more, and get worked into the ground. I did 7-8 lessons a day, and sometimes worked 6 days a week, which came to about 900 yen an hour.
Japan is def not worth it, unless you get a rare awesome job.
Not worth it. once I get my spousal visa, I am getting a Japanese job. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 3:21 am Post subject: |
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Ikki,
Don't put words in our mouths.
Yes, some people will come here and get drunk and date the locals and make general fools of themselves, thus leading locals (and other foreigners, sometimes) to have a bad impression of those individuals and their countrymen. I agree with that assessment.
However, not all people who can't see that they are indeed an ambassador of their country have to do only those things to show they are blind. People can be arrogant to storekeepers, office staff, and anyone else they meet. They can ignore local customs, be loud and offensive in places where they should be quiet, and do many more things that give their kind a bad image. Why is it so hard for you and others to grasp that simple concept?
As for your JET vs. eikaiwa treatment, I think it is total rubbish. You have already decided that you will be a good person in the office and in public only if your employer is good to you, it seems. Interesting illogic IMO.
| rxk22 wrote: |
| but people are making what the TS said to be something else. He just isn't that motivated to teach, which is understandable. it's not like he is planning on passing out in the streets. |
Considering some of the comments like the ones alluding to Thai women, how can you be so sure otherwise? It's not the only remark suggesting poor behavior, but it's a strong one.
| rxk22 wrote: |
| People were coming down hard on the TS for not being super genki about teaching English in Japan. |
You have completely misinterpreted opinions expressed here. No newbie has to (by anyone's standards including my own) be "super genki about teaching". But, I think they should certainly be far from not giving a shit, as openly declared. What is your problem with that, if you don't mind my asking? |
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TokyoLiz
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1548
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:13 am Post subject: |
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| After my JET gig was over, I got on with a major eikaiwa and the universe changed. |
I can't imagine why anyone would want to work for a chain eikaiwa after the JET Program. Why did you do that to yourself?
| Quote: |
| So what did I owe my employer(and Japanese society at large)besides showing up & doing my job? Diddley squat, that's what. |
Why do you stay? I mean, if you are married and have kids, this is where you live for now. |
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Shimokitazawa
Joined: 16 Aug 2009
Posts: 458
Location: Saigon, Vietnam
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| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:00 am Post subject: |
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| TokyoLiz wrote: |
| Quote: |
| After my JET gig was over, I got on with a major eikaiwa and the universe changed. |
I can't imagine why anyone would want to work for a chain eikaiwa after the JET Program. Why did you do that to yourself?
| Quote: |
| So what did I owe my employer(and Japanese society at large)besides showing up & doing my job? Diddley squat, that's what. |
Why do you stay? I mean, if you are married and have kids, this is where you live for now. |
I was surprised to see how many JETS went on to ECC, NOVA and Berlitz. |
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TokyoLiz
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1548
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:02 am Post subject: |
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I've had a very satisfying and fun life since JET 10 years ago. Most of my jobs have placed me in jobs that have serious demands on my teaching skills, with some bumps, of course.
The JET Program is a great jumping off point. But you've got to make the jump yourself, on your own merit. You make a heap of money, get amazing life experiences, and meet people. You could go on to grad school, or a career in TESOL, or business, fill a niche in your community, or meet the love of your life....
My "sempai", an American, met her match in a fellow aikido student, and made her mark in journalism in her local area. She became fully literate in Japanese, and is able to compose in Japanese. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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| rxk22 wrote: |
| Who said anything about Thai women? |
ScottishGringo did.
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=90117
| Quote: |
| I think if a company wants you to work hard, then they need to give you a reaosn to do so. Like paying and or treating you well. I really don't see that happening in most the EFL industry here. So why should people give a $#%&? |
SG has admitted he doesn't give a shit (his words) and isn't interested at all (again, his words) in teaching. We just would prefer that he have a better attitude than that. That is a far cry from saying we want him to "work hard". You just don't get it, rxk22.
Why should people care? Because of their clients, because they present an image of their country to the locals and to other foreigners...but you don't seem to care about either of those things, do you?
Not all employers in the EFL industry are as awful as you make out, either. You sound like a very bitter person. Plenty of us have had good enough experiences to say that it's worth a shot, and as long as one is in such a service industry, why not care? Show that you are willing to come to work on time, put in a fair day's work, stay away from the students with socially inappropriate directives, and you will give the employer a good image. I've seen too many terribly contracts posted here, probably as a result of employers fighting it out with foreign teachers who didn't "give a shit" about their teaching and who didn't do any of those things I just listed. That's one reason contracts end up with legalese and clauses aimed against the teachers. What goes around, comes around.
Think you're going to have a poor employer? Don't take the job and don't complain about it.
Get stuck with one anyway through some act of secrecy on their part? Take it up with the proper authorities.
There are plenty of posts on the Internet to ward off bad employers. Don't do enough research to know about them and it's nobody's fault but the foreign teacher.
Will the serious types change the EFL world in Japan? Not short-term, no. Maybe not even in our lifetimes. However, what's the harm in doing what we ask? If nothing else, it makes for a more comfortable co-worker situation.
| Ikki wrote: |
| After my JET gig was over, I got on with a major eikaiwa and the universe changed. I still made reasonable money(by the crap standards of most 2011 EFL jobs in Japan)but was worked into the ground, lost all the perks I had on JET and was subjected to all kinds of petty rules & regulations. |
No offense here, but why did you take a job where you (probably) knew you would face all those things? Didn't you read the contract? |
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rxk22
Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629
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| Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
| rxk22 wrote: |
| Who said anything about Thai women? |
ScottishGringo did.
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=90117
| Quote: |
| I think if a company wants you to work hard, then they need to give you a reaosn to do so. Like paying and or treating you well. I really don't see that happening in most the EFL industry here. So why should people give a $#%&? |
SG has admitted he doesn't give a shit (his words) and isn't interested at all (again, his words) in teaching. We just would prefer that he have a better attitude than that. That is a far cry from saying we want him to "work hard". You just don't get it, rxk22.
Why should people care? Because of their clients, because they present an image of their country to the locals and to other foreigners...but you don't seem to care about either of those things, do you?
Not all employers in the EFL industry are as awful as you make out, either. You sound like a very bitter person. Plenty of us have had good enough experiences to say that it's worth a shot, and as long as one is in such a service industry, why not care? Show that you are willing to come to work on time, put in a fair day's work, stay away from the students with socially inappropriate directives, and you will give the employer a good image. I've seen too many terribly contracts posted here, probably as a result of employers fighting it out with foreign teachers who didn't "give a shit" about their teaching and who didn't do any of those things I just listed. That's one reason contracts end up with legalese and clauses aimed against the teachers. What goes around, comes around.
Think you're going to have a poor employer? Don't take the job and don't complain about it.
Get stuck with one anyway through some act of secrecy on their part? Take it up with the proper authorities.
There are plenty of posts on the Internet to ward off bad employers. Don't do enough research to know about them and it's nobody's fault but the foreign teacher.
Will the serious types change the EFL world in Japan? Not short-term, no. Maybe not even in our lifetimes. However, what's the harm in doing what we ask? If nothing else, it makes for a more comfortable co-worker situation.
| Ikki wrote: |
| After my JET gig was over, I got on with a major eikaiwa and the universe changed. I still made reasonable money(by the crap standards of most 2011 EFL jobs in Japan)but was worked into the ground, lost all the perks I had on JET and was subjected to all kinds of petty rules & regulations. |
No offense here, but why did you take a job where you (probably) knew you would face all those things? Didn't you read the contract? |
Well, all I can say is that you get what you pay for. And most ALTs and Eikaiwa monkeys get very little. Little training as well.
Now if the companies and BOEs actually cared they would invest money into hiring people who knew how to teach, and in training them as well. Both of those are pretty rare on the ground in the EFl industry here.
Bitter? A bit, I dislike the way the BOEs and companies treat us FTs. I shouldn't have to go to a training meeting when I am not getting paid for it. We shouldn't have our schools changed every 6 months or so on us. Now, there is no way to get to know the kids, and the JTs will ignore the FTs even more, as they are like a revolving door.
If companies really wanted quality, they would pay for it. As it is now, they are lucky to have some decent people come in. As the only motivation I have to actually do anything beyond half@$$ed is personal pride.
Even if I do a good job, it's just defeated by my JTEs, or by time. I get nothing out of it, and neither do the students in the long run. |
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