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seklarwia
Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano
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 Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 7:21 am Post subject: |
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| Ryu Hayabusa wrote: |
@seklarwia
I don't think there is any problem with rxk22's math--just his/her job!
Any decent ALT job pays a stable monthly salary that only decreases in August and December (mine didn't). It sounds like he/she works on a pay-by-the-day system. That sucks. But with a guaranteed monthly salary of even 230 000 yen, a person should be able to save 10 000 yen per month very easily in their first year. |
I'm going to assume you meant 100,000 per month. 
But I still think there is something wrong with his math because he actually claims that on the full months (i.e. when he is getting 230,000 - I understand how he couldn't save on the 4 months when he averages just enough to live) if you don't spend any money on non-essentials such as going out you can only realistically expect to save 20,000 yen per month.
Since he is only getting 20,000 less than me on his full months it makes sense that he should potentially be able to put away roughly that much less than me which should still have him aroung the 80,000/month mark... what is happening to that other 60,000 odd yen per month? |
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seklarwia
Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano
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| Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:00 am Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
| 1) Most employers nowadays have already paid for the key money on apartments, so unless you get one that hasn't, or one that is scamming you, or you get your own place, you will probably avoid that huge expense. |
I agree this may be the case for eikaiwa employers, but not so for dispatch employers which have the bulk of ALT jobs these days. It simply isn't possible for dispatchers to keep hold of the housing to pass from one ALT to the next.
There is the fact that people often exercise their right to live where ever they please within reason. Like one of my predecessors drove and chose to live slightly further out in the sticks. I don't drive, so there is no way I could have taken their apartment even if the place had been leased directly by my employer (which it wasn't).
Another ALT at my last placement decided to move because the BOE decided to shuffle up the schedule meaning they were now spending more time at the schools furthest from where they lived. Problem is even our dispatcher had the same contract with the same schedule after that ALT left, that ALT had decided to rent and share an apartment with another friend, again not making the place viable once they left.
And of course, there is no guarantee that a dispatcher will have contracts with the same BOEs the next year.
So in dispatch jobs especially, you should assume that there are going to be some hefty start up costs for housing and be pleasantly surprised when there are not. |
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Rooster_2006
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 984
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| Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 3:04 am Post subject: |
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| rich45 wrote: |
| rxk22 wrote: |
| bobbysix wrote: |
In this day and age, I would be wary of coming to Japan to teach English after doing a degree. As you probably already know, competition is fierce for graduate jobs in the UK and a couple of years out will only disadvantage you when you return to the UK and apply for jobs competing against the fresh graduates.
And don't think about making a career out of ESL in Japan, it's a dead end job.
With a good degree from a good uni, you should look to getting a proper job in the UK. Just my two penneth. |
What this guy said. On top of teaching here, you'll prolly never earn back the money it took to get you here. I know I haven't, and never will. Not unless you feel like working a significant amount of side jobs. |
Complete nonsense. You will earn and quite easily save your initial outlay in...maybe 6 months. Honestly, this board is ridiculously negative at times. |
I agree.
I save well over 100,000 yen per month from my job. That's on a standard 250K yen paycheck. If I absolutely had to, I could save even more than that, in fact.
I have a decent apartment (bedroom, living room, bathroom, shower room, kitchen, and entryway). I travel sometimes (so far, I've hit Tokyo, Osaka, Kyoto, and Nagoya). I recently bought a Nintendo 3DS (not cheap). I go out and do fun things all the time.
I remember before coming to Japan having fierce debates with people like RazorHideki who insisted that "anything less than 250K yen a month is poverty." Well, looks like he was wrong, because I can save 100,000 yen per month on 250K yen (e.g. $14,882.40 a year at the current exchange rate, not chump change).
Even if I were making a mere 180K yen, I'd still be able to save. It would just be less (maybe 30K or 40K yen per month in savings if I were unfortunate enough to make 180K yen).
But then, unlike many of the spoiled pretty boys who think you can't save on 250K yen, I actually endured some financial hardship as I put myself through college and learned how to budget and economize. These hard economic lessons taught me to live well on very little money.
If you're used to being carried around on sedan chairs or driving BMWs or eating seven-course meals for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, yeah, it will be difficult to save here. But otherwise, it shouldn't be too difficult. |
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rxk22
Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629
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| Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 11:56 am Post subject: |
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| Rooster_2006 wrote: |
| rich45 wrote: |
| rxk22 wrote: |
| bobbysix wrote: |
In this day and age, I would be wary of coming to Japan to teach English after doing a degree. As you probably already know, competition is fierce for graduate jobs in the UK and a couple of years out will only disadvantage you when you return to the UK and apply for jobs competing against the fresh graduates.
And don't think about making a career out of ESL in Japan, it's a dead end job.
With a good degree from a good uni, you should look to getting a proper job in the UK. Just my two penneth. |
What this guy said. On top of teaching here, you'll prolly never earn back the money it took to get you here. I know I haven't, and never will. Not unless you feel like working a significant amount of side jobs. |
Complete nonsense. You will earn and quite easily save your initial outlay in...maybe 6 months. Honestly, this board is ridiculously negative at times. |
I agree.
I save well over 100,000 yen per month from my job. That's on a standard 250K yen paycheck. If I absolutely had to, I could save even more than that, in fact.
I have a decent apartment (bedroom, living room, bathroom, shower room, kitchen, and entryway). I travel sometimes (so far, I've hit Tokyo, Osaka, Kyoto, and Nagoya). I recently bought a Nintendo 3DS (not cheap). I go out and do fun things all the time.
I remember before coming to Japan having fierce debates with people like RazorHideki who insisted that "anything less than 250K yen a month is poverty." Well, looks like he was wrong, because I can save 100,000 yen per month on 250K yen (e.g. $14,882.40 a year at the current exchange rate, not chump change).
Even if I were making a mere 180K yen, I'd still be able to save. It would just be less (maybe 30K or 40K yen per month in savings if I were unfortunate enough to make 180K yen).
But then, unlike many of the spoiled pretty boys who think you can't save on 250K yen, I actually endured some financial hardship as I put myself through college and learned how to budget and economize. These hard economic lessons taught me to live well on very little money.
If you're used to being carried around on sedan chairs or driving BMWs or eating seven-course meals for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, yeah, it will be difficult to save here. But otherwise, it shouldn't be too difficult. |
Thing is, I don't make 250k, I make 230k. After the deductions for insuance and what not, I make about 190k a month. In my area rent is not cheap, so I pay 80,000 a month in rent. Which leaves me not so much to live on. Plus on avg my city tax is 10,000 a month.
I don't party, nor drink much at all. And BMW, is Bike Metro Walk. |
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Rooster_2006
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 984
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| Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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Okay, so let me get this straight:
230K - 40K in deductions and insurance = 190K
I'm with you so far.
190K - 10K city tax = 180K
Okay, still with you.
But then, after that, that's where it becomes eminently apparent that you're not using your money wisely. Because you have 180K yen per month to work with after those things, and you're saving next to nothing. Something is wrong with this picture.
Our salaries are almost the same (only 20K yen difference) and I easily save OVER 100,000 yen per month.
Seriously, if you can't save on 230K yen per month, it's only because you're hemorrhaging money somewhere. I'm not sure where exactly, but if you are at all fiscally responsible, you need to find the leak and plug it fast!
Based on what you've told me...
- Lose the 80K apartment. Way too expensive. Even in downtown Tokyo, single rooms (with shared bathrooms) are available for half that price. Having your own bathroom automatically jacks the price up several 10K yen, and only makes a difference for about 10 minutes of the day when you're using it. Or, if you don't want to lose the overpriced apartment, you can sublet one of the rooms in your apartment.
- Start cooking at home. Food need not cost more than 800 yen per day if you know how to cook and if you buy 10 kilogram bags of rice at the beginning of the month. Pack your lunches.
My guess is that you're hemorrhaging money on both rent and food and that's why you can't save. Decide how much you want to save, come up with a budget, and there's no reason you can't save 80,000 yen per month on that salary. How do I know? Because I save over 100K yen per month on my salary which is only 20K higher than yours. |
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aynnej
Joined: 03 May 2008
Posts: 53
Location: Pittsburgh, PA, U.S.A.
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| Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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Quoting Rooster_2006 --
| Quote: |
| - Lose the 80K apartment. Way too expensive. Even in downtown Tokyo, single rooms (with shared bathrooms) are available for half that price. Having your own bathroom automatically jacks the price up several 10K yen, and only makes a difference for about 10 minutes of the day when you're using it. Or, if you don't want to lose the overpriced apartment, you can sublet one of the rooms in your apartment. |
This is fine if you really can live in guesthouse accommodations. But it can really be a pain in the !@#$. I started out in a guesthouse for 62,000 (including utilities, excluding coin-operated aircon), but the kitchen was a mess all the time, the showers were a mess most of the time, they had inane visitation rules, the common areas were freezing in the winter, etc. While I may not live in Japan forever, for the time being, it's my *home,* and I need to feel comfortable. There are probably better guesthouses out there, but there are loads of crummy ones. Abunai!
Now I live in a shoebox for 80K plus utilites (in Tokyo -- Nakano-ku). Yeah, it's expensive. Yeah, I could save more money if I moved out to the burbs or farther away from the station. But one's time is valuable, too, and I personally am willing to pay extra to have a nice 22-minute, single-train commute to work everyday. I really like where I live, and willingly work harder to earn the money to pay for it.
All that being said, I'm glad I started out in a guesthouse. It took me a while to get my bearings. I stayed in my initial guesthouse for five months and looked at several apartments/guesthouses before settling on the one I have now.
Regarding savings, I can save about 50K/month without much effort. My base salary is 257,000. But, I work OT every chance I get, and can often reach 300K. Some months I can save around $100K. I do go out a fair amount (maybe 3x a month) and often have lunch with friends. I also do a lot of traveling (hiking in the Kanto area, trips to SE Asia over the breaks, trip home every 12-18 months). Based on an average take-home pay of 275,000, here's a rough estimate of my budget. Perhaps it would be of help to anyone considering coming over.
275,000
Rent 80,000
Internet 6,000
Utilities 10,000 (varies)
Phone 4,500 (having paid cash for my i-phone)
Ward Tax 15,500
National Health 20,000
Japanese Lessons 12,300
=================
126,700 for groceries, savings, entertainment, non-work transportation, and travel
Of course, I could easily find some areas to shave some yennies. I could not study Japanese or opt for the free/low cost ward lessons. I could go without internet, or split the cost with a neighbor. And as is the way with life, things do vary from month to month. I don't always work enough OT to reach 275K, sometimes I work a whole lot more, health insurance is only billed 10 out of 12 months, occasionally I need to go to the doctor, etc. But, even in Tokyo, one can still save. I'd definitely have to make some adjustments to my lifestyle to live on 230K, though. |
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rxk22
Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629
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| Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 2:56 am Post subject: |
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| Rooster_2006 wrote: |
Okay, so let me get this straight:
230K - 40K in deductions and insurance = 190K
I'm with you so far.
190K - 10K city tax = 180K
Okay, still with you.
But then, after that, that's where it becomes eminently apparent that you're not using your money wisely. Because you have 180K yen per month to work with after those things, and you're saving next to nothing. Something is wrong with this picture.
Our salaries are almost the same (only 20K yen difference) and I easily save OVER 100,000 yen per month.
Seriously, if you can't save on 230K yen per month, it's only because you're hemorrhaging money somewhere. I'm not sure where exactly, but if you are at all fiscally responsible, you need to find the leak and plug it fast!
Based on what you've told me...
- Lose the 80K apartment. Way too expensive. Even in downtown Tokyo, single rooms (with shared bathrooms) are available for half that price. Having your own bathroom automatically jacks the price up several 10K yen, and only makes a difference for about 10 minutes of the day when you're using it. Or, if you don't want to lose the overpriced apartment, you can sublet one of the rooms in your apartment.
- Start cooking at home. Food need not cost more than 800 yen per day if you know how to cook and if you buy 10 kilogram bags of rice at the beginning of the month. Pack your lunches.
My guess is that you're hemorrhaging money on both rent and food and that's why you can't save. Decide how much you want to save, come up with a budget, and there's no reason you can't save 80,000 yen per month on that salary. How do I know? Because I save over 100K yen per month on my salary which is only 20K higher than yours. |
I would, but I can't live in a 1K with my fiance. I would murder her for sure. For any lower of a price, you get rat nests where I am. Not going to get a shared bathroom, I do contact sports, and don't want to risk warts/ringworm. besides, no guesthouse is nearby me at all. Don't need to add to my hour long commute.
I almost never eat out. We went to Coco's this Friday, which is prolly the first time in a moth, it cost us 2,000 yen or so. I cook curry a lot. It lasts almost 3 days, and costs only around 1,200 to make.
On top of the 180,000 after taxes, you have to factor in my pay gaps. In April I made only 100,000yen, before taxes. That happens 4 months a year. That's basically where all my savings go, to make up for the 4 months ayear that I hardly get paid. |
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Rooster_2006
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 984
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| Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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Okay, rxk22, I see where you're coming from. You only get 100,000 yen per month four months out of the year, so your average salary (if those low-pay months are counted) is only 186,667 yen per month.
Now, I will agree with you that it is very hard to save money on an average salary of 187K per month. Very hard.
Personally, if it were me, I think I could still bank 40K yen or so on that paycheck per month (because I'd rent a small room instead of a regular apartment to save money), but then, I don't have a fiancee, and I don't require a large apartment.
So in other words, I see why you can't save any money, but that doesn't mean that other people with your same income can't. But thanks for explaining that. At least I understand what you mean, now.
I still believe that _SINGLE_ teachers ought to be able to save, even on 180K yen per month. But having a fiancee/spouse makes things much, much more expensive.
But seriously, I must ask:
If you only average 187K yen per month, what are you doing providing her with free rent? Why not make her chip in? You're essentially averaging barely above minimum wage every single month and yet you're still supporting another person (who is, presumably, healthy and able to work and contribute). That doesn't seem fair to you. What on earth is she doing? |
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rxk22
Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629
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| Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Rooster_2006 wrote: |
Okay, rxk22, I see where you're coming from. You only get 100,000 yen per month four months out of the year, so your average salary (if those low-pay months are counted) is only 186,667 yen per month.
Now, I will agree with you that it is very hard to save money on an average salary of 187K per month. Very hard.
Personally, if it were me, I think I could still bank 40K yen or so on that paycheck per month (because I'd rent a small room instead of a regular apartment to save money), but then, I don't have a fiancee, and I don't require a large apartment.
So in other words, I see why you can't save any money, but that doesn't mean that other people with your same income can't. But thanks for explaining that. At least I understand what you mean, now.
I still believe that _SINGLE_ teachers ought to be able to save, even on 180K yen per month. But having a fiancee/spouse makes things much, much more expensive.
But seriously, I must ask:
If you only average 187K yen per month, what are you doing providing her with free rent? Why not make her chip in? You're essentially averaging barely above minimum wage every single month and yet you're still supporting another person (who is, presumably, healthy and able to work and contribute). That doesn't seem fair to you. What on earth is she doing? |
Yeah those contract gaps are getting bigger every year too. Used to be like 2 1/2 weeks between March and April, now it's over a month. So it kinda hurts.
You are right, I could get a smaller apt. But a 1ldk, is only like 6,000 less a month, not really worth it. Esp since I live with a girl, I need a closet too you know.
Glad you asked. She is working on her masters. But she could have been a house wife, and helping raise the kids. Which a surprisingly large amount o' alts are doing. Not sure how they get by, as I barely do. I really would have to work a massive amount of side work. Teaching privates, or being an Eikaiwa monkey.
True people can save on even 18k a month, but really even 23k a month is not really worth it, to move to another country and set up shop. As if you hate it, and are there only a year, you may end up in the red savings wise.
My first ALT company set me up in a slughouse. It was march, so it wasn't bad, come late March, I was killing anywhere from 4 to 10 slugs a day in my house, not too mention mukade. So, I moved, and that costs some big bucks. Between not being paid for a solid month(aka being in Japan and training for free), I had to move. Plus, I threw out a lot of my stuff that got slug slimmed. So all that put me back a great deal.
Just saying, a lot of things can go against you as an ALT/eikaiwa monkey. |
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Rooster_2006
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 984
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| Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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| rxk22 wrote: |
| Yeah those contract gaps are getting bigger every year too. Used to be like 2 1/2 weeks between March and April, now it's over a month. So it kinda hurts. |
Yeah. That's rough.
| Quote: |
You are right, I could get a smaller apt. But a 1ldk, is only like 6,000 less a month, not really worth it. Esp since I live with a girl, I need a closet too you know.
Glad you asked. She is working on her masters. But she could have been a house wife, and helping raise the kids. Which a surprisingly large amount o' alts are doing. Not sure how they get by, as I barely do. |
I know how they do it:
- They get large subsidies from the J government. When you have children in Japan, you can get payments from the J government that can be applied towards child-related costs. The J government is doing this in an effort to bring up the birth rate. The payments are quite substantial. This is available even for gaijin whose children are born in Japan.
- If the spouse works even part-time at a low-wage job, that's an automatic +100,000 yen a month. Combine that with your ALT pay and the government handouts for having a kid in Japan, and we could be talking about 350K per month.
| Quote: |
I really would have to work a massive amount of side work. Teaching privates, or being an Eikaiwa monkey.
True people can save on even 18k a month, but really even 23k a month is not really worth it, to move to another country and set up shop. As if you hate it, and are there only a year, you may end up in the red savings wise. |
Although this is true, some people desperately want to live in Japan no matter what it takes, and consider working in Japan a perk rather than something that must be compensated with extra pay. They are willing to go into the red their first year at eikaiwa simply because it is the only way to get their feet in the door of the country, at first. I mean, you can go on a student visa, too, but that requires a minimum bank balance of 3,000,000 yen for the student visa, which I certainly don't have. I'm glad that I found a 250K yen job, but I would have settled for a 180K yen job if it had been the only thing available to me, because aside from working here as an English teacher, there is pretty much no other way to enter this country and get setup here. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Rooster_2006 wrote: |
- They get large subsidies from the J government. When you have children in Japan, you can get payments from the J government that can be applied towards child-related costs. The J government is doing this in an effort to bring up the birth rate. The payments are quite substantial. This is available even for gaijin whose children are born in Japan. |
What do you call "substantial"? When our son was born, we got about 5,000 yen/month. A couple years ago or so, it went up to about 13,000 yen/month (maybe slightly more for kids under 3). Yeah, every little bit helps, but that's not what I'd call a substantial payment. Plus, I don't think it's going to last much longer, either.
| Quote: |
| - If the spouse works even part-time at a low-wage job, that's an automatic +100,000 yen a month. |
Depending on circumstances, that could be a big "if". Having a kid means mom stays home, and if you want mom to work, you'll have to pay a lot for daycare facilities, if you can even get them. Those are in high demand these days, too. |
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rxk22
Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:41 am Post subject: |
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| Rooster_2006 wrote: |
| rxk22 wrote: |
| Yeah those contract gaps are getting bigger every year too. Used to be like 2 1/2 weeks between March and April, now it's over a month. So it kinda hurts. |
Yeah. That's rough.
| Quote: |
You are right, I could get a smaller apt. But a 1ldk, is only like 6,000 less a month, not really worth it. Esp since I live with a girl, I need a closet too you know.
Glad you asked. She is working on her masters. But she could have been a house wife, and helping raise the kids. Which a surprisingly large amount o' alts are doing. Not sure how they get by, as I barely do. |
I know how they do it:
- They get large subsidies from the J government. When you have children in Japan, you can get payments from the J government that can be applied towards child-related costs. The J government is doing this in an effort to bring up the birth rate. The payments are quite substantial. This is available even for gaijin whose children are born in Japan.
- If the spouse works even part-time at a low-wage job, that's an automatic +100,000 yen a month. Combine that with your ALT pay and the government handouts for having a kid in Japan, and we could be talking about 350K per month.
| Quote: |
I really would have to work a massive amount of side work. Teaching privates, or being an Eikaiwa monkey.
True people can save on even 18k a month, but really even 23k a month is not really worth it, to move to another country and set up shop. As if you hate it, and are there only a year, you may end up in the red savings wise. |
Although this is true, some people desperately want to live in Japan no matter what it takes, and consider working in Japan a perk rather than something that must be compensated with extra pay. They are willing to go into the red their first year at eikaiwa simply because it is the only way to get their feet in the door of the country, at first. I mean, you can go on a student visa, too, but that requires a minimum bank balance of 3,000,000 yen for the student visa, which I certainly don't have. I'm glad that I found a 250K yen job, but I would have settled for a 180K yen job if it had been the only thing available to me, because aside from working here as an English teacher, there is pretty much no other way to enter this country and get setup here. |
I didn't think it was all that much. My buddy has a kid, and he says it's only a bit. Is there a big tax break or anything too?
I guess if I had a kid or 2 350k wouldn't be too bad. Wouldn't be well off, but wouldn't broke either. But from my Japanese frfiends, it seems as thouh a lot of jobs now pay very little.
Yeah, kinda ruins it, people willing to jump on some really awful jobs, just ot be in Japan. When I give adivce about coming to Japan, I tell em to be an exchange student. Best time of my life by far. And it'll cost about the same. I spent only $4k or so for my stay here in 08. |
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