|
Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
G Cthulhu
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 1373
Location: Way, way off course.
|
 Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:25 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| jcook77 wrote: |
| I just hope that anyone feeling compelled to physically donate some time in Tohoku will be welcomed, not turned aside. It's that same way of thinking that kept foreign doctors from being able to enter Tohoku and assist patients -- they didn't have a Japanese medical practitioner's license. |
I understand where you're coming from, but I think you're missing the context: Japan doesn't really need the help. The thread title carries a lot of important information: why is the word "vacation" in there?!
Take your second part - the non-Japanese doctors being declined. Can you point to where that cost lives? The only thing I see happening if non-Japanese doctors had suddenly appeared on the scene was them not understanding their potential patients and being unable to order anything done medically. The US military was geared up to help medically and their offer was accepted. Anyone else wouldn't have the backup & support necessary, so IMO it was the right decision to decline by the Japanese.
It's for much the same reason that, for example, New Zealand refused offers of help from Israel and a few other countries during their earthquakes earlier this year: the "help" would have been more of a liability than assistance. Japan did the same thing. It allowed some, specialized help to come in that was offered, but declined other offers.
Another example would be some of the local church groups where I am in the US. They were all gung-ho about going to Japan to help.... right up until they found out that the Japanese couldn't/wouldn't offer them any language support and wouldn't let them preach and try to convert people while there. And then they got upset and made even more noise about being refused. Sorry, but I've got no sympathy for that sort of rubbish.
Again, I understand the desire to help, but in all honesty, the people I see getting most upset about being refused are the ones that aren't going to be much use and may be a potential liability. "Vacation helpers" aren't going to be high on anyone's list of people they want flitting in and out of the area just so they feel better about themselves. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
G Cthulhu
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 1373
Location: Way, way off course.
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| jcook77 wrote: |
I guess I sound harsh, but a lot of people are good at spouting from an ivory tower without any actual experience in the very topic they're discussing.
|
And just as you have no idea of who is replying, so cut it with the holier-than-thou attitude, please. I happen to know that at least one of the people on this thread is (or was) qualified in mountain & disaster rescue and has done work in disaster recovery in a town hit by avalanche. Some of the people here really are speaking from the point of view of being qualified and (at least somewhat) experienced.
| Quote: |
Didn't want to get off topic, because my whole point was that people hoping to volunteer should be given a chance.
|
Why?
Seriously, why should they? They have no right to a chance, and in a country of ~125 million people the non-Japanese speaker who doesn't have the cultural background or sensitivity is and should be low on the list of offers of help to accept. Again, I understand the desire, but for most of us the answer is not to add to the burden by going there ourselves.
| Quote: |
| I agree with some posts about the hazards of not knowing fluent Japanese in this particular situation. However, if a need is there, volunteers who agree to sign an insurance waiver or whatever should be considered. |
Incredible. Just incredible. Your only response is to look at it from a legal liability perspective.?!  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jcook77
Joined: 08 Oct 2010
Posts: 32
Location: Tokyo
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 2:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
I'm not going to address each response individually. Suffice to say, some people disagree with my stance. Fine. I feel like I defended my opinion and that's that. There's nothing holier-than-thou about expressing yourself. This is a forum. Frankly, being chastised by someone who isn't even living in Japan seems a bit silly.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
G Cthulhu
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 1373
Location: Way, way off course.
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 4:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Frankly, having people whine about the location of someone as if it were in any way relevant to this particular discussion is childish. But if it will make you happier, I'll be in Japan next week. Will that somehow make the points actually mentioned more valid? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
seklarwia
Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 4:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
| jcook77 wrote: |
| I'm not going to address each response individually. Suffice to say, some people disagree with my stance. Fine. I feel like I defended my opinion and that's that. There's nothing holier-than-thou about expressing yourself. |
Why not? You did a pretty good job very insultingly telling me that I was overly sensitive and that I should chill. How many friends and loved ones have you lost to natural disasters that you think you know better than me how people do or do not feel then? Just wondering since a lot of people are good at spouting from an ivory tower without any actual experience in the very topic they're discussing. - For the record, that is a very holier-than-thou way of expressing yourself.
| Quote: |
| Frankly, being chastised by someone who isn't even living in Japan seems a bit silly. |
I didn't know that common sense required you actually live in the country in question. Besides I also lived in China for the Sichuan quake but don't for a second believe that made me knowledgeable on the situation. Being on scene did. But just being in the same country...
But I'll humour you; would it add more weight to his arguement if I copied and pasted his words as my own since I do live in Japan right now?
I will ask this though: You are in Japan now, right? So you know about the series of not all that minor quakes that has been hitting the nation in the last few months (my kids and I ended up stuck on a train and then stranded last week because we had no way to get back when school was cancelled across the city). How can you believe it's a good idea allowing foreigners with poor language skills up to a tsunami zone when Japan's instability means there is the possibility that another disaster could hit at any time?
Problem with quakes is that unlike cyclones, etc, they are extremely unpredicatable which means tsunami warnings (if any) are going to come after the quake has already hit when speed is vital and having to try to explain to or hunt for foreigners is going to cost lives. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jcook77
Joined: 08 Oct 2010
Posts: 32
Location: Tokyo
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 6:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
I appreciate being enlightened. Thanks. Next time I'll keep my opinions to myself and let the experts on the forum handle it. I apologize for being so ignorant, uppity and condescending.
Best wishes in Japan with all that you do!
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TokyoLiz
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1548
Location: Tokyo, Japan
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
I've been watching the thread.
If the OP wants to volunteer in Japan with people who need help, he or she should also look up WWOOF.org which connects volunteers with organic farms all over Japan and the world. The farms that sign up with WWOOF often specifically welcome non-Japanese.
I just read about a volunteer expedition in the Tohoku region to help a widow and her daughter do some heavy dudty work around the house, which is intact but damaged. You've got to have a strong back, and strong stomach, too, as there are fly infestations due to rotting fish and other things, and you need a lot of sensitivity and compassion for the survivors. They're grieving the loss of everything. Some survivors are traumatized from having witnessed family, neighbours and strangers die.
A lot of sensitivity is needed. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Yawarakaijin
Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 504
Location: Middle of Nagano
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 11:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| TokyoLiz wrote: |
I've been watching the thread.
If the OP wants to volunteer in Japan with people who need help, he or she should also look up WWOOF.org which connects volunteers with organic farms all over Japan and the world. The farms that sign up with WWOOF often specifically welcome non-Japanese.
I just read about a volunteer expedition in the Tohoku region to help a widow and her daughter do some heavy dudty work around the house, which is intact but damaged. You've got to have a strong back, and strong stomach, too, as there are fly infestations due to rotting fish and other things, and you need a lot of sensitivity and compassion for the survivors. They're grieving the loss of everything. Some survivors are traumatized from having witnessed family, neighbours and strangers die.
A lot of sensitivity is needed. |
Good post. In fact the only post actually addressing the original poster's query. It isn't so hard to be civil is it? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
refikagurz
Joined: 18 Mar 2007
Posts: 31
Location: Earth
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 11:43 pm Post subject: tohoku |
|
|
I'm the OP.. I actually received a couple of HELPFUL PMs with some valuable info. Yes, there ARE Tohoku volunteer organizations set up for foreigners. Thank you, kind alert posters, who knew better than to post the info on the thread avoiding more antagonistic responses...
After seeing what this post turned into after a simple well-intentioned query.. I see why the social situation of this world is such a MESS.. Human nature I guess.. to be fractious and ego-driven to misunderstanding..
Sigh.... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
refikagurz
Joined: 18 Mar 2007
Posts: 31
Location: Earth
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 11:47 pm Post subject: tohoku |
|
|
| Oh yeah.. And the reason they are called volunteer "vacations" is because volunteers use their valuble vacation time to participate.. Not that the "vacation" would be particularly more enjoyable than lying on a beach in Thailand! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Shonai Ben
Joined: 15 Feb 2003
Posts: 617
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
| People here need help......it doesn't matter how big or small the help is.....anything and everything is appreciated..so to the OP.....yes,if you want to come up here to lend a hand by all means do so...... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
aynnej
Joined: 03 May 2008
Posts: 53
Location: Pittsburgh, PA, U.S.A.
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Quoting rk22
| Quote: |
I dunno about you. I think the JLPT tests have very little bearing on how well you can speak/listen. I am studying for the N2, but I am very conversational, and can usually get my point across.
How well can you follow directions in Japanese? I do BJJ, and without it, I prolly couldn't understand some of the physical directions. |
Hey, thanks for the response (and sorry for the delay). I only meant the JLPT as a measure of my vocabulary. My daily vocab is okay, but I get befuddled with too much business lingo or keigo. I can understand "teacher" style directions (nantoka nantoka ite kudasai) but have some difficulty understanding men's language from time to time. I feel like my language abilities are still too low to risk going up north, as much as I want to. Anyway, thanks again. Hope your volunteer experience is/has been good. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TokyoLiz
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1548
Location: Tokyo, Japan
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
You may have experienced Saturday's major aftershock. The work party I told you about in a previous post were on low-lying land when the shock came. They are non-Japanese who are fluent in Japanese. They clearly heard the tsunami sirens, but their team leader did not promptly put everyone in the vehicles and drive to higher ground. They were about to run to higher ground by themselves. The story is a bit hard to follow, but it looks like they stayed when the tsunami warning was lifted. There was a very small tsunami, but even a small one can suck you off a beach.
Please be careful about who you volunteer with. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rxk22
Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
| aynnej wrote: |
Quoting rk22
| Quote: |
I dunno about you. I think the JLPT tests have very little bearing on how well you can speak/listen. I am studying for the N2, but I am very conversational, and can usually get my point across.
How well can you follow directions in Japanese? I do BJJ, and without it, I prolly couldn't understand some of the physical directions. |
Hey, thanks for the response (and sorry for the delay). I only meant the JLPT as a measure of my vocabulary. My daily vocab is okay, but I get befuddled with too much business lingo or keigo. I can understand "teacher" style directions (nantoka nantoka ite kudasai) but have some difficulty understanding men's language from time to time. I feel like my language abilities are still too low to risk going up north, as much as I want to. Anyway, thanks again. Hope your volunteer experience is/has been good. |
I wouldn't worry about it. Just tell someone who you are working with,'if we need to run away, tell me' and you will be good. Go for it, don7t let the old prunes here stop you. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rxk22
Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
| TokyoLiz wrote: |
You may have experienced Saturday's major aftershock. The work party I told you about in a previous post were on low-lying land when the shock came. They are non-Japanese who are fluent in Japanese. They clearly heard the tsunami sirens, but their team leader did not promptly put everyone in the vehicles and drive to higher ground. They were about to run to higher ground by themselves. The story is a bit hard to follow, but it looks like they stayed when the tsunami warning was lifted. There was a very small tsunami, but even a small one can suck you off a beach.
Please be careful about who you volunteer with. |
Wow, if I were there, I would put those fluent Japanese speaking Gaijin in the hospital. Not much worse than people who abandon their group like that. Scumbags |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
