Job Discussion Forums

[Quest]

I am a person looking at teaching english in China in late Feburary/early March. I have been talking to a recruiter in southern China who was highly regarded by a friend who is now teaching. I sent the recruiter a CV and resume over a month ago, including a professional video of myself. The recruiter has said they really like my work and I believe them. However this person has not been able to connect me to a school who is interested in hiring me after showing my work to AT LEAST 5-6 schools (probably more). I do not have a degree (college diploma) but have skills that feature patience and the ability to work & live with people of different languages/cultures. I have also been taking mandarin lessons for the last 3 months and have learned 40-50 basic sentences and am able to count to 1000 as well as tell the time/date.

Since I am black, I need to know how much of a factor race is. I understand that it is a factor to some degree, but how much? I know that there are fewer places hiring during spring break, but to not have ANY responses has left me wondering. I have been very hesitant to mention anything about race to this recruiter because of the nature of Chinese customs and have thought that I would never want to bring it up to someone from a school. A friend in Taiwan has told me that if this recruiter hasn't found me anything, then they are really out to lunch.

If you are a person of colour, or know somone of colour in China or elsewhere in Asia, please let me know your thoughts. How are people of colour treated by schools? How are they treated by the locals? Should I mention my race when posting a resume or responding to job postings. Can you tell me of any schools that DO NOT have a problem hiring black people. Should I look outside China (even though I have no degree).

If you would like to add your thoughts but are neither a person of colour or can share an experience of someone who is, please do not. Your willingness to help is greatly appreciated, but your lack of personal experience does little to help me.

[SongGirl]

Dear Quest...I am not a person of color (although I am even "worse", namely all colors mixed together!) but I have an experience I can share. Or at least an anecdote. I am currently living in China, trying to make a living since I have had one bad experience after another, but the man who is currently hiring me now, a Chinese with true visions for "better international understanding" is planning on filling 150 positions until March. Well, I have no idea how he wants to manage, since I am right now the only teacher he is employing and he can't even provide decent accomodation, so I asked him whether there were no other applicants at all? He said, yes, there were a few from South Africa but...and well, that is where the story ended for him, and where he would stop giving me any information at all. And that is where I understood right away. He will not hire these people no matter how much he needs teachers, and no matter how great their CVs look. He will probably do the same that has been done to you--not answer their requests...because he will lose his face, and they will lose theirs. Generally, not even with Caucasians, they care much about your educational history, or our experiences. That was at least my experience. Yeah, a B.A. sounds great to most of them, but ideally, what many schools expect is a tall blonde with blue eyes. I am not tall blonde with blue eyes and I have had many Chinese people come up to me and say, oh, you are not how I would imagine a German/American (I am both) to look like. Now this is how I see things here but schools are often very much more interested in the imagine they can build in the public than whether they are good teachers or not. They will borrow you out to other schools for a day or so against a nice pay and photograph you without asking, put you in their brochures even though you are just visiting. The Chinese are not racist for that matter...not in the sense in which we know it. They are just plain ignorant. They might be pursuing the West, trying to get their bite off it, but they are still a culture that has been isolated --and is still isolating itself-- from the rest of the world ever since their civilization got started at some point way before most of ours. They are very proud, and even the young people will still tell you that China is the best country in the world. Yes, they dream of going to college in the US or Canada or the UK someday, but they have no idea what awaits them there, and telling about them, well, to me it has proven to be in vain. Ironically, the Chinese people is made up of numerous ethnic groups--they even oppress each other, still. In China, some people are simply better than others. We met a young Mongolian woman one day, she had the most beautiful facial features and you could see she did not comply to the general Chinese ideal...we knew she was Mongolian so we asked her about her Mongolian name. She refused to tell us in front of her Chinese colleagues, and her reasons were obvious.

The Chinese have a hard time to accept and realize what all is out there in that world--they do not understand why I should not speak Chinese! They do not understand how I can have a German mother and American father--they do not understand the terms multicultural, or cultural at all when it comes to things not Chinese. I had a Chinese American colleague before, she was from California and obviously looked very Asian. The people could not understand why she did not speak Chinese, and she was told that she was not really an American...she was also told that she was not really a Chinese. What failed them to understand this simple idea was that there is a lack of a profound awareness, that psychological link that to us seems so logic. It just doesn't exist.

In the school I just worked at, we had a Native American visit for two weeks to study. He was pretty dark, had all the typical features and the long hair...and most students as well as teachers were simply afraid of him! Of course they never bothered to find out more about who he was, how he came from, about HIS culture. They will ask you whether you have the Backstreet Boys in your country and which cars you drive and if you are married but they don't really care much--and don't want to know--about things deeper than that.

Imagine going through Wal-Mart and seeing shelves of Whitening Cream--the girls bleach their faces to look more like whatever it is they are admiring in a white face. My facial skin is dull, I have large pores and blackheads and I personally feel very ugly at times...and they keep coming up to me telling me how beautful I am. They are obsessed with it.

I know I am getting off the topic here, Quest, but I hope I was able to explain how I see things here. I came to China only three months ago so I am far away from understanding their culture (if possible at all)...it is just as amazing as frightening, it is as beautiful as it is disturbing and almost threatening at times. It is an adventure, that is for sure. That is how they are here. It is not a personal picture of an ideal they are drawing...at least I don't think so. I think what encourages this thinking is the Western propaganda (which is only used in advertising and not for politics of course). Being isolated from the rest of the world also means that once you introduce something new in a good manner, it will be soaked up like crazy, inhaled and imitated.

I have heard of one Black teacher in China so far, this is one of those "colleague of a colleague of mine" stories but he was supposedly an absolute star at his school (in a positive way)...I cannot remember where in China that was, but it was a positive experience for someone out there.

You are right, I am not black, I can't speak out of that experience, but I hope I could express just a little what I feel is going on in China concerning other cultures. To them, there is not much besides China, if anything at all. To them, China is the world. I tried to explain the term "culture shock" to my students today. I have tried it many times. I never feel it will ever be part of their vocabulary when they grow up. I HOPE they will someday come to use it...and also, I know that China is moving forward and not backwards so I think it will get better concerning its foreign relations. Generally, for a foreigner, it can be pretty hard here. We are dependent on the will of our employers, have to register with the police, can get into major trouble very fast (e.g. if you don't know you are leaving the park and entering a military zone), and might have our passports taken from us. They just don't trust us too much yet. They let us teach their kids so they can become successful business people in a globalized world but for some reason, we are still a threat to them. I don't know what else to say Quest...yeah, in that point, to make it exact, China sucks

Hope I could help...at least a bit?

Jenny

[dezza]

Hey Quest, take a look at AES. I'm Chinese Canadian and have heard some horror stories from other overseas Chinese who went to China to teach. I asked AES this and they said they don't care if you're yellow, red, black or green they will hire you if you are qualified.

So give them a look, they are posted in the jobs offered forum.

Good luck.

Dezza

[Dragon]

You will not like it. If you are sensitive about race then do not go, otherwise prepare for constnat racist remarks. You're advantage is that you do not understand chinese. Think of it as a blessing not a curse. Chinese people look down upon black people, why, I do not know. They equate you with Africa and if you're American with sex and violence.
go somewhere else and save yourself the trouble, unless you can take it.

[arioch36]

Hi Quest,

Seems there are two questions...racism in China, and being hired in China without a degree.

I have worked in Zhengzhou area, Henan. My first college had ten foreign teachers, one was a black lady from Georgia. This year they have a black man from NYC (students like him, I keep in touch). Of 30 foreign teachers I am aquainted with here, 3 others are black. They have positive feelings about working here, and state they are treated like any laowai (foreigner). Tha being said, the Chinese students have the same stereotypes that black and whites have in the west (yes, black people have the same stereotypes...blacks are good at sports, are more likely to be violent...etc.). But they treat the teachers as individuals, not blacks. They only really have "racism" against Japanese. But I am sure some person can tell you a negative story.

Their are two ways to be hired, illegally and legally. Most private language schools hire people illegally, whcih is not the biggest of deals, but is another issue. But these language schools are more apt not to care about your teaching skills or degree, but are you young, pretty, and yes, white is preferred.
I do not believe the same is true at most colleges and high schools. Certainly not in my experience. Blacks are welcome. But it is increasingly difficult to get a job at a Chinese college without a degree. While they are always looking for people, they also always get many applicants.

My feeling is that kindergarten schools are the most likely to still hire non degree applicants of quality (though the school I know best wants degrees.) My advice, look at some k-schools, apply in person...if you have an interest in kids. Once teaching here, jobs are much easier to get.

[Angel Puppy]

I'm Chinese American and I taught English for a year and at numerous different schools/locations in China. In the class room, the color of your skin is only important in the first impression. Initially, some and/or most Chinese EFL students and schools want the ideal "lao wei" teacher: white, blonde and blue eyes. But, from my first hand experience and observation, as the class progresses, the students care more about their progress in learning English and the effectiveness of the teacher. I've had Australian and Irish colleagues, and the students were disappointed in their teaching abilities as their classes progressed. I do know that most schools are very hesistant in hiring Indian teachers because of their heavy accent. This can be understandable. However, competent schools (the ones that actually care about their students, and not just the money) look for EFL certifications, college degrees, teaching experience, etc.

I did experience students curiously wondering why I can't speak Chinese. It's not because they're ignorant as an earlier post connated to, it's the fact that there's no cultural/ethnic/race mixing in China. There are a billion Chinese people, and 99% of their daily lives they only see Chinese people. Although China is rapidly modernizing and opening, a large majority of Chinese people have not been exposed to the "foreign world". It's your duty as an EFL teacher to teach more than just English. You are technically titled as an "Foreign Expert". It is ideal that EFL teachers teach about the culture, facts and history about their country, the mannerisms in their country, etc., in addition to the 4 facets of EFL teaching. Remember that you are "living and working" in China, this is not your home. Put yourself in their shoes; what do they need to learn and what should they learn.

Frankly speaking, I've learned that the Chinese don't know much about "black" people except that they "play in the NBA". I once asked a class of mine what they thought of "black" people and I received some negative responses. Their only basis was that they "heard it on TV" or "just by looking at them". However, my counter-argument was, "Do you personally know any black people? How do you know that is true?" After I brought up the epiphanies, they began to wonder in another angle and this "cultural exercise" opened their views. I'm not saying that you should go and do a "racial awareness" crusade, but you will be appreciated much more if you can educate them about other cultures that exist in the world.

In short, once the EFL teacher passes the first few days of the students' nostalgia about the teacher's physical appearance, your eventual interaction with the students and acceptance by the students will be based significantly on your personality (Foreign Expert) and effectiveness in teaching them English (EFL Teacher).

Look past your own judgements, look past the Chinese' "misled" judgements, and "teach" your students.

[Marco Polo]

Hey, there. GLV in Zhuhai (www.glvchina.com) is one place that is all about hiring English speakers from all corners of the globe and all ethnic backgrounds, and from what I can tell, seems to be very highly regarded and is definitely growing like kudzu. The owner has a vision of the place as being a sort of international peace center, which results in his having an atypical (for the Chinese) hiring philosophy. There are teachers here from India, Kenya, the Phillipines, etc. There is also an African-American woman, and a fellow of Ethiopean origin who grew up in Seattle, not to mention the predictable motley assortment of Canadians, Americans, Scots, Irish, etc. With your qualifications, I'm sure they would be delighted to have you. I think starting pay is about 4000 RMB a month for people with a TEFL certificate, speaking of which, the only reason I'm aware of GLV is because they host TEFL International's certificate program here, which I'm finishing today before moving on.

Best of luck!

[Roger]

Hello, Quest!

You have asked a question that needs dividiing into two parts:
- Finding a job;
- Relationships with local people.

I would warn you off any agency, first thing! Get hired by a school, negotiate with them, ask them whether they can sponsor you legally! Ottherwise... Those recruiters have absolutely no legal groundsand basis. They pass you on in exchange for cash upfront. If anything goes swrong, you are in hot water with a potentially unscrupulous employer with dubious connections.

Reply to the job offers on Dave's, or other advertisements! Post your resume. Come over here and scour the countryside. And, I have to add that for a black person you must take more care to maintain your integrity here as you are more visible. There are white II's in Guangdong who don't seem to ever be bothered by the police, yet I had official visitors from the local PSB a few years ago just about once a month - to check whether I was by myself (or had a female live-in!). I am white, this happened in Shenzhen, supposedly China's avantgarde and most advanced "city"! Blacks have known to be rounded up and sent back across the border to Hong Kong (in the newspaper here!).

Now, race: I have known a Nepalese, an Afghan, a Pakistani-American, a native-American, several Filippinas, not to mention various Europeans to work as English tutors and teachers - no problem. I even ran an advert together with a Nigerian once, again, no discerible problem.
But you must be aware of prejudice, it does exist. You must be realistic and accept to be "the foreigner". So am I, and for me, this is not always easy either. Chinese racism is deep and primitive. It is mythological - listen to them talking about Tibetans and their cannibalism (or so some CHinese believe!). Africans are "black and dirty" - sorry, this is their bias, not mine, I have roots in Africa myself and I don't share this view at all. They simply are haughty, thinking their "civilisation" preceded everyone else's (it doesn't - the Greeks were known to have a city civilisation when the first mythological CHinese began existing), and they actually believe Westerners lived in caves and on treetops a few hundred years ago! It is plain ignorance, and unlike in other places, racism does not tend to be violent (yet).
Having said this, I want to conclude in a more positive note: I have known a COngolese (note the COngolese first western language is French!) who has succeeded in setting himself up here permanently, with a Chinese wife and three kids!
Just about anything is possible!

[pistonear]

Hey Quest, some time ago I posted a simmiliar question to the people on this forum. I was attempting humor and titled it teaching while Black or something like it. The responses ranged from down right ignorant to understanding. You asked if your degree makes any difference, well it doesn't. I am Hispanic and African American so I am qualified to tell you that if the school wants you they want you. They won't care about qualifications. Those qualifications make it easier to hire you, but are not edged in stone. Employers have a need for teachers who fit the ideal of a native speaker. Another poster said that most Chinese have not seen anyone who is African up close. It is not personal its just business. They are trying to fill the classrooms. The recruiters, the schools, and the parents want what they want. Just make sure that when the door actually opens for you, your prepared to walk in. Have fun and learn from your experience, but also remember that you'll be representing a whole ethnic group. Never lose your temper! (one of the big sterotypes is that were violent people) Just keep plugging away and eventually you'll get what your after. Minds are always changing. "Sufferage breeds character." P.S. can't remember who's quote it is. Head up ,chest out, Good luck Gonzo:!:

[arioch36]

Here ia a disagreement, which will be found a plenty. Good school in China care about your having a degree, and your experience. Most colleges receive many applicants per job post. The k-school I know also has such requirements. And these such schools often don't care if you are young old, black, white, or Chinese American.
However if you just want any job, such as at a Mickey Mouse language school such as EFL, though don't care less about your degree/experience, will be more likely to want you to be white and young, and are more likely to treat you like a piece of meat. You will also often be working illegally, and as the EW post said, asked to do illegal or unethical things. So such language schools prefer inexperienced people that are less likely to stand up for themselves, or know when they are being duped.
Private high schools, in my limited experience, are usually much better then this, but can vary greatly

[scot47]

so you only want to hear comments from blacks ?
I thought Apartheid had gone for good ?

[Tubbo]

Hi,

We have a black teacher working in our school in southern China, specifically Haikou City, Hainan China. Find the China TEFL network, look for the Hainan Ministry of Education and send Huang your details. Colour doesn't appear to be an issue here.

[gerard]

From my experience ( I have friends of color) not having a degree is the bigger problem...

[MyTurnNow]

I've had several friends here who were teachers AND black.

One or two of them were quite happy and successful but most of them found life here more of a struggle than the rest of us. Even if a school will hire you, acceptance by society and your students will be harder to win. It can be done but it won't be easy. The successful ones had considerable force of personality working for them...

The Chinese often will not accept anyone except white people as "American" (or "Canadian", "Australian", etc.). It's something I've railed against many times in my own experiences. I've often seen with my own eyes parents or students transferring to new classes, or even new schools, to avoid a black teacher. Many schools simply refuse to hire blacks for ths reason. The Chinese have absolutely no moral dilemma about decrying the racist treatment they encounter in other countries, while in the same breath labelling other races here as "inferior". Even other Asians, sometimes even foreign-born ethnic Chinese, will struggle with this. White people also encounter biases here, sometimes pro and sometimes con. Racial distinction is a deeply-ingrained popular perception in this highly homogeneous society, and it's not going to change quickly or easily.

There's also a strong element of non-confrontation. Sometimes your Chinese students will smile and praise you to your face, and then go scream at your managers about that awful black person in their class...they want a "REAL" American/Canadian/Australian etc.!

I don't want to put you off coming here...despite often being infuriating it's a wonderful country. I love the people here despite their differences, maybe even flaws. Non-whites frequently can be and are successful here. But be prepared for a lot of extra challenges...racism is still often strong and overt here. You can make it if you are strong too.

I strongly agree with what some others have written- the lack of a degree is a much bigger problem than your race. It will severely limit your options.

And yes, AES will screw over anyone, without regard to race or creed. Or much of anything else.

I wish you well...
MT

[arioch36]

MyTurn...Do you teach at a college/high school, or a "language school"?