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shmooj

Joined: 11 Sep 2003 Posts: 1758 Location: Seoul, ROK
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Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 1:57 am Post subject: |
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sidjameson wrote: |
Smooj Are you really saying that a man unlucky enough not to fall in love until he was 45 should have kept himself a virgin? Again wow... |
Yep I am
Wow indeed.
That's what makes love love... commitment at the risk of personal sacrifice... anything less is not love. |
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J-kun
Joined: 13 Mar 2004 Posts: 43 Location: The Hell of Pachinko
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Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 3:38 am Post subject: |
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I just think that what people do in their free-time is there own business. If going out every Friday and Saturday, getting rip-roaring drunk and chasing after all the meaningless sex they can get makes a person happy, or gives them the illusion that they're happy, I don't have a problem with it. As long they're showing and doing there job with a reasonable degree of competence.
Canuck, you're right. Why care indeed? If people want to make ridiculous assumptions about my character because I teach English in Japan, that's their problem, I agree. Still, I don't like that the few deserve it are giving all of us a bad reputation. I think that the vast majority who are here teaching, including eikaiwa teachers, are making an honest effort to be good teachers while they are here. Given, of course, that many don't want to be teachers and aren't trained or cut out for it.
You go into class and there are six people sitting there expecting you to teach them something. This is good motivation to get prepared.
One more thought, and I offer this purely for discussion, I'm not trying to rile anyone with this: Could it be that the animosity some career teachers express toward those who are just passing through comes from both getting a similar level of respect (or lack there of) in society? I mean, does it bug you that the guy who just came over and is totally green gets to be a sensei too? |
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SEndrigo
Joined: 28 Apr 2004 Posts: 437
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Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 4:50 am Post subject: |
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J-kun wrote: |
I just think that what people do in their free-time is there own business. If going out every Friday and Saturday, getting rip-roaring drunk and chasing after all the meaningless sex they can get makes a person happy, or gives them the illusion that they're happy, I don't have a problem with it. As long they're showing and doing there job with a reasonable degree of competence. |
Could not have said it better myself.
However, most of these people try so hard to convince themselves that they're happy, and try even harder to convince others, bragging about their conquests, and believing that the more they continue on this path, the happier they'll be (the more they do this however, the less happy they find themselves).
There's an old expression, and perhaps in English as well, that the real womanisers don't have to talk about what they do or convince others or even themselves...they just do what they need to do.
Does James Bond talk or brag about it? Of course not...he does what he needs to do and he keeps his mouth shut.
99 percent of the above people do not fit this profile....and these backpackers exist in Japan, Italy, Czech Republic, and they exist in just about every other country which hires TEFL teachers.
J-kun wrote: |
One more thought, and I offer this purely for discussion, I'm not trying to rile anyone with this: Could it be that the animosity some career teachers express toward those who are just passing through comes from both getting a similar level of respect (or lack there of) in society? I mean, does it bug you that the guy who just came over and is totally green gets to be a sensei too? |
That certainly might be a reason, but another reason is that backpackers lower the standards of the profession for everyone, and create negative attitudes/reputations about teachers (many of whom don't deserve it).
Think about it this way....why would an eikaiwa pay a highly qualified teacher with an MA, 400,000 yen a month, when they can pay a new graduate 250,000 to do the same job?
Of course they'll get a better teacher if they hire the former, but it's all about profit and as long as they can hire backpackers for cheaper, they'll continue to do it.
This might seem to go against my previous posting, but it doesn't....I've stated from the beginning that you can and should party as much as you want to - as long as you put TEACHING first.
Before you do something, ask yourself, "what would James Bond do in this situation?"
He would be a total professional in his job, and in the end get the ladies as well...nothing wrong with that is there  |
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guest of Japan

Joined: 28 Feb 2003 Posts: 1601 Location: Japan
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Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 8:46 am Post subject: |
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He would be a total professional in his job, and in the end get the ladies as well...nothing wrong with that is there
I do believe he mixed business with pleasure on quite a few occasions. |
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shmooj

Joined: 11 Sep 2003 Posts: 1758 Location: Seoul, ROK
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Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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J-kun wrote: |
does it bug you that the guy who just came over and is totally green gets to be a sensei too? |
ROTFLMHO
... <wipes away tears>
do you seriously think that us "career teachers" worry about a job title?
No. What we are concerned about is the global business of EFL - something which the average eikaiwa Joe knows little if nothing about. This is our living. This is make or break. This is what we have chosen to do.
If any old guy who bought a shack and painted "Hospital" on the outside was accredited with actually curing the sick, doctors would lose their pay, their career and their livelihoods. In fact, the term "doctor" would cease to have much meaning.
That is what the eikaiwa industry is by and large doing to TESOL in Japan and hence why having "any old guy" called a sensei really has nothing to do with it.
I am speaking here of Japan but it is a global problem. I hope to be involved in English teaching for a good 30 more years or so. I'd really like to see the industry go through a dramatic professional shift in that time. It would truly revolutionise language teaching and have a marked impact on global communication. It would also, I believe, reduce many of the cultural misunderstandings that we live with these days.
With that kind of vision and investment, I'm sure you can see why I feel protective over the whole scene. |
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Gordon

Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 5309 Location: Japan
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Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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J-kun wrote: |
I mean, does it bug you that the guy who just came over and is totally green gets to be a sensei too? |
To be honest, I'd never thought of it before. I don't even let my university students call me sensei, but I tell them to call me Gordon. It is hard enough to get them to feel comfortable and talk without being worried about "sensei". If a title excites you, than go ahead. |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 4672 Location: Western Japan
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Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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Gordon wrote: |
J-kun wrote: |
I mean, does it bug you that the guy who just came over and is totally green gets to be a sensei too? |
If a title excites you, than go ahead. |
Maybe on my next trip home I might ask if can visit the cockpit and get to sit in the co-pilots seat. That doesnt make me a 747 captain though.
You dont 'get' to be a called a teacher by someone handing you the keys to the liquor cabinet. You become one by training and hard work and acquiring qualifications. Students at NOVa dont respect you just becuase you happen to be their teacher for the day (NOVA students dont think the quality of teaching there is very high anyway and have a pretty good idea of the educational background of the staff there) but because of what you can do, how you inspire your students, your level of skill and training in the classroom. Even good teachers at an eikaiwa can do a lot with very little. Students can usually tell inexperienced newbie teachers that dont know the back end of a bus. That doesnt make them real teachers, IMO. |
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Tonester
Joined: 24 Mar 2004 Posts: 145 Location: Ojiya, Niigata Pref
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Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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This seems to be a really hot topic. I personally know a few eikaiwaites and they don't seem to be too bad but I guess I haven't met every single eikaiwaite in Japan. The only thing that astonishes me is that the ones who actually do fit the stereotype (and I don't mean all of them to clarify my point) of womanising the J-chicks and coming to work hungover and enjoy living their life that way tell their mates back home about how easy it is to get a woman just because you're a gaijin and then what happens? Their mates then come and join the ranks, and then they tell their other mates too and you have a cycle that just keeps repeating itself until the parents of such Japanese women who fall for the so called "bad eikaiwaites" start telling their beloved daughters "No Gaijin Boyfriends for you, have a Japanese one instead".
End result: Undeserved bad images for the gaijins who don't fit the stereotype. Makes the bad (I don't mean all)eikaiwaites seem like the most selfish people on earth, doesn't it?
I'm all for having a good time but as long as you remember why you're here. If it is for just getting a J-chick because you're socially inept in your own country then you really need to think twice about being here because Japan is not the solution to your problem.
Now, my rant has finished so I'll go on a slightly different tangent. I'm one of those ALTs who likes to taste the ESL field before ordering the whole main course so to speak. I am aspiring to become a professional after my JET tenure has finished with a view to perhaps becoming a teacher in a private high school. Of course I do need to take a course. Has anyone done a TESOL Diploma (not the 5 week certificate) from Lambert University? If so I'd like to hear from whoever has because I'm contemplating doing that course.
Back to the original topic: I've also noticed that eikaiwaites do have it hard in their jobs (especially if you work for the Big 4) and monotony can sink in very quickly so I can understand why some of them do like to drink, party and get J-chicks. I just don't think it should be the main reason for coming here, that's all. I do understand that it is not all but a few that do fit this mold but IMO to be considered a "sensei" so to speak I think it all boils down to attitude. You can have a good attitude to your job and genuinely care for your students and have a passion for the ESL industry. That's what makes a true "sensei". Of course, qualifications are important because it shows you're a properly trained professional who knows what he/she is doing and spent many hours in training and completed copious amounts of assessment to prove his/her competence. But if you don't have the right attitude then you should not be in a classroom at all. (By the way, I'm not trying to get at the likes of Paul, Glenski or any other veteran ESLer who I've seen contribute well here and whose opinions I do respect by saying such things)
Then again, if you do get qualified then 99% of the time you do have the right attitude anyway and do have that passion for your job. There is however the 1% who got qualified and do not possess the right attitude and are just doing their job until there is an opening in the industry he/she really wants to work in.
My post has been long and perhaps offensive to some but I just thought I'd add some balance to the discussion. I have seen some people say here that other people should mind their own business about what one does in their spare time and I've seen some people say that what the minority of eikaiwaites do in their spare time can tarnish the reputation of the people who are actually serious about their jobs. Perhaps the up-and-coming professionalisation of the ESL industry in Japan may force a lot of eikaiwas to close their doors in the future. When it evenutally happens there will be a new breed of eikaiwaite on the scene as more will start demanding qualifications specific to the industry and then perhaps the so called "bad eikaiwaite" could be a thing of the past. Who knows? Only time will tell. |
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Gordon

Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 5309 Location: Japan
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2004 12:01 am Post subject: |
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Tonester wrote: |
Perhaps the up-and-coming professionalisation of the ESL industry in Japan may force a lot of eikaiwas to close their doors in the future. When it evenutally happens there will be a new breed of eikaiwaite on the scene as more will start demanding qualifications specific to the industry and then perhaps the so called "bad eikaiwaite" could be a thing of the past. Who knows? Only time will tell. |
Good post Tonester. Unfortunately, I don't think the EFL industry will become professional in my lifetime and I'm not that old. Until students choose schools that have professional standards, schools will bring in the cheapest "teachers" possible. |
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Tonester
Joined: 24 Mar 2004 Posts: 145 Location: Ojiya, Niigata Pref
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2004 12:33 am Post subject: I wonder when it will happen....... |
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You know, Gordon; I'm only 22 myself and left Australia for the 3rd time for Japan only 8 months ago (this time as a JET ALT) and it didn't take me long to notice the problems inherent in the ESL field in Japan. On the other hand when I was an exchange student at a private high school in Saitama back when I was 18 I actually thought that people at the big 4 had to be professionals. It was only after I got back to Australia and started my university study that I realised how naive I really was.
I concur with you; it may not become professional until I'm either old and retired or as you put it- dead!
Last edited by Tonester on Tue May 11, 2004 1:24 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Gordon

Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 5309 Location: Japan
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2004 1:15 am Post subject: Re: I wonder when it will happen....... |
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Tonester wrote: |
when I was 18 I actually thought that people at the big 4 had to be professionals. It was only after I got back to Australia and started my university study that I realised how naive I actually was.
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The shirts and ties must have fooled you because if you had talked to them, you would have discovered the truth. |
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Tonester
Joined: 24 Mar 2004 Posts: 145 Location: Ojiya, Niigata Pref
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2004 1:26 am Post subject: |
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Funny thing was I never met any of them at all back then. If I did they would have fooled me big time! If I'd have talked to them? I'd probably have either laughed at them or idolised them! (Now I'd do the former and not the latter........) |
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TokyoLiz
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 1548 Location: Tokyo, Japan
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2004 1:36 am Post subject: Phenomenally woman |
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Sidjamieson wrote
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Tokyoliz "dozens more things pleasurable than sex" Wow please name 3. Remeber we are not talking about meaningful. I said pleasurable. Sounds like we either don't agree on what pleasure is or that I am doing something really right in the bedroom. |
Ooh, there is nothing more pleasurable than finding meaning in the smallest and most subtle words and gestures.
About the thing that makes a woman attractive to herself and the men in her world, all I can say is that Maya Angelou said it best in her poem
Pretty women wonder where my secret lies.
I'm not cute or built to suit a fashion model's size
But when I start to tell them,
They think I'm telling lies.
I say,
It's in the reach of my arms
The span of my hips,
The stride of my step,
The curl of my lips.
I'm a woman
Phenomenally.
Phenomenal woman,
That's me.
A phenomenal woman, or man for that matter, is someone who has more going on than b o o t y. It's what's between your ears, it's attitude and brains, that turns on a phenomenal man or woman.
You can read the whole text of her poem at http://www.empirezine.com/spotlight/maya/maya-p1.htm#Phenomenal%20Woman |
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J-kun
Joined: 13 Mar 2004 Posts: 43 Location: The Hell of Pachinko
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2004 4:34 am Post subject: |
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Thanks all, for your thoughts on the sensei thing. As for me, I don't care about the title, but I did notice that I got quite a bit of respect as a teacher when I came to Japan. Perhaps this is because I'm from the US, where teachers are treated like s**t- disrespected by students, blamed by parents and politicians, and I was previously working as a high school substitute teacher in Los Angeles(which, yes, is more babysitting than teaching). Maybe I didn't deserve it (respect from the Japanese I mean)maybe it wasn't even genuine- that isn't the point. In my case, it motivated me to live up to there expectations and do a good job, even though the eikaiwa working conditions were less than ideal.
RE:do you seriously think that us "career teachers" worry about a job title?
I don't know. That's why I asked. I'm wondering about the source of all the deprecating remarks about eikawa teachers I see on these forums.
I think the "bad eikaiwa teacher" is largely a myth, though I admit there must be a few who fit the stereotype. I just haven't met any. Sure, I've met a lot of guys who like beer and J-girls, but I don't see anything wrong with that. Hell, I'm one of them. I'm all in favor of the James Bond ethos.
Paul, tonester and all of you who wrote about the qualities of a real teacher are absolutely correct. It takes a lot of effort and commitment to become a great one. Which is why I wondered how those who have made that effort feel about being lumped in the same general category as those haven't and don't intend to. |
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Tonester
Joined: 24 Mar 2004 Posts: 145 Location: Ojiya, Niigata Pref
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Posted: Tue May 11, 2004 6:22 am Post subject: |
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J-kun,
I'm happy you understand where we come from. At the start I had thought you were defending the eikaiwa field in its entirety but now I see that you are wanting to know why eikaiwaites have a bad rep. As I said, some of my friends are eikaiwaites so if I hated them, I'd never befriend them in the first place.
If you want to know about the minority of eikaiwaites who do actually tarnish the reputation of career teachers and aspiring ones (I'm not yet qualified but do intend to get certified via a distance learning program during my JET tenure) check out the job info journal- Japan. Some of those authors complain about the conditions there, some even go as far as admitting that girls are what they are really there for and the eikaiwa gig is the easiest legal way to remain in Japan.
http://www.eslcafe.com/jobinfo/asia/sefer.cgi?display:1063782063-7020.txt
The author of the above entry in the Job info journal- Japan section does not have the makings of a real teacher- more like an inept slacker who can't make it in his/her country by his/her own implicit admissions to boot!. If you read it you'll see what we mean about the makings of a real "sensei". That author doesn't have what it takes.
That's only one but try reading a few in the journal and then you'll realise why eikaiwaites get beaten up so much. |
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