Job Discussion Forums

dutchman · Joined: 10 Mar 2010 Posts: 84

I was wondering if non-teaching EFL experience (ESP materials writer, curriculum developer, DOS etc.) counts for anything salary-wise when applying for teaching jobs in Saudi. Thanks!

Badar Bin Bada Boom · Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:16 pm Post subject:

I think that type of experience helps a lot if it's in addition to some years of teaching experience. They always like people with curriculum development experience and similar skills. Even in a DLI-type setting, you can make yourself Mr. Invaluable by taking on curriculum-type projects on your own and playing them up a bit.

johnslat · Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:18 pm Post subject:

Dear dutchman,

I agree with Badar Bin Bada Boom, but as far as it helping you salary-wise (at least initially,) I'd say that extremely doubtful.

Regards,
John

nomad soul · Joined: 31 Jan 2010 Posts: 11454 Location: The real world

Probably a negotiable salary booster if the employer views those skills as highly desirable or a plus.

dutchman · Joined: 10 Mar 2010 Posts: 84

OK, here is my situation. I have a BA, CELTA and an MA in TEFL, but no experience. My goal is to start working in Saudi in 2-3 years time. I need to get experience elsewhere in the mean time. If I can't find a uni job, which do you think is better, working in a crappy language school, or working as an ESP materials / test developer at an institution?

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

I'd suggest a mixture. It's pretty difficult to develop materials effectively without piloting them - that's classroom experience. Ditto effective tests - they need piloting on actual students. If you are going to work at an institution which produces but does not use materials and tests (does such an institution exist?) then consider using the stuff you create on actual students through a language school gig, even if it's part-time.

Could you expand on the idea of development of materials and tests in an environment where teaching is not also a part of the job description? Unless you've been hired to work directly for one of the big publishers, I can't quite picture this. I'd appreciate enlightenment on the topic - I've got official curriculum design in my own professional background and would honestly like to know for my own benefit.

johnslat · Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 4:01 pm Post subject:

Dear dutchman,

In Saudi, you'll only get salary credit for teaching time after you received your Masters degree. Also, I'm pretty sure most/all universities in Saudi wouldn't consider any time spent as "an ESP materials / test developer at an institution" as equal to "two to three years teaching experience."

Have you thought about getting those two or three years teaching experience in some other locale besides the Middle East? I wouldn't recommend "a crappy language school," especially in Saudi - or anywhere else in the Middle East.

Regards,
John

dutchman · Joined: 10 Mar 2010 Posts: 84

Thank you John. I'll try my luck in Europe or Latin America and rack up some experience before heading to the KSA then.

It's Scary! · Joined: 17 Apr 2011 Posts: 823

At least you have the EU to peruse, John and I have been locked out or at least a decade now.

Protectionism at its worst! Twisted Evil

It's Scary!

johnslat · Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 5:11 pm Post subject:

Dear It's Scary,

Except - we do pretty much the same, don't we? Smile

Regards,
John

It's Scary! · Joined: 17 Apr 2011 Posts: 823

I don't believe so. Can you quote a source? If so, I'll shut up on the matter. However, it's been my experience that the US of A has normally advocated a level playing field...especially when it comes to those that we really, actually need, but cannot recruit from within due to a dearth of talent.

I look forward to being debunked, for as you know, I respect your opinion(s). Sorry to put you to labour!

It's Scary!

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

It's Scary! · Joined: 17 Apr 2011 Posts: 823

I get that. That's why we have specialized visas for Filipina nurses and Indian astrophysicists (not to generalize, of course) and such.

What qualities as a Canadian-American do you possess that they don't in the EFL field other than GAE? Suggesting, of course, that you're an EFLer.

It's Scary!

johnslat · Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 8:11 pm Post subject:

Dear It's Scary,

I tried once to help a foreign friend get a job here. The place I was working at then (U 0f Cal, Irving) told me that with the visa restrictions, any foreign-born, non-citizen ESL teacher who wanted to get a job in the US would have to have some specialist skills that could not be found among US citizen ESL applicants.

That was back BEFORE the "recession" - the way things are now, even US born ESL teachers with loads of experience and qualifications almost always find it extremely difficult to find work. A full-time job? Not very likely.

You, my friend, have been extremely fortunate.

http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=69637

Regards,
John

It's Scary! · Joined: 17 Apr 2011 Posts: 823