Job Discussion Forums

[bluetortilla]

I was thinking I'd like to get an MA in Linguistics down the road at a University somewhere in Asia. To my abjection, I was told it would be worthless. Why?

I can see that it might not carry the weight of a an MA from the US or UK, but surely it must be worth something. An MA is an MA isn't it? Furthermore, I'd like to use my MA in Asia. I've no intentions of going back home.

It seems odd to me that an MA through correspondence (no intention on stepping on toes here) would hold more weight than a MA earned in person on a perfectly acceptable Asian campus simply because it's administered from a school in the UK or US.

How about publishing? Would that help?

For anyone who knows about this, thanks in advance.

[Nemodot]

How about an American british or aussie degree in Asia?

Webster uni in Thailand
Nottingham uni Malaysia (Nottingham is a top uni in UK)
Monash in Malaysia (but says Malaysia on degree)

The Nottingham one says Nottingham uni on it and marked in UK. No one would know the difference

[wailing_imam]

NUS (Singapore) offers a well regarded MA In Applied Linguistics.

http://www.relc.org.sg/home/

[bluetortilla]

Hey, Webster's is based in my home town! It was just a little art college when I was young! Unfortunately, they only seem to offer a MBA. Nottingham also is not the greatest choice with an ambiguous MA in Cultural Studies. Sounds like a fun program, but can I use it?
NUS looks great. I'll check into it more.
Ideally I though it would be wonderful to teach at a respected but more provincial university somewhere while getting an MA in Linguistics. Am I dreaming the impossible dream?
I also ran across an MA in TESOL or Linguistics from Payap University in Chiang Mai. Are there more places like that about? Are the degrees well regarded (by the I mean enable one to get posts at decent universities in the region)?

[nomad soul]

Bluetortilla, check out the Temple Univ campus in Japan---they offer a Master's degree in TESOL. Temple is accredited by the Middle States Association of Colleges and Schools.

[bluetortilla]

Thanks. Yes, I know all about Temple- in fact, took one post grad class in Modern Grammar there. It's a great school.
My problem with Japan is many-fold.
For one thing, it's not a bad place to live (it's comfortable I'd say) but after 20 years plus I'd like to move on. Kind of tired of concreted mountains and vending machines. I'd like to go where the coconuts cost a dime, there are dangerous insects and snakes about, and most of the side streets are unpaved
Secondly, I just can't earn enough money here to pay for something like Temple. In fact, I barely earn enough to save just a little each month, if any at all. I keep repeating that on the forums so people know before they consider Japan, that your salary/expenses ratio is very high and that doesn't really change no matter how long you've lived here. And there are a lot Micky Mouse jobs around as well that I just can't stomach (they don't pay anything either though). But, one, if you have your own school and run it well you can make a decent living, and two, if you have a Master's particularly in TESL (though these days they yelling more and more for Ph.D's) you can get good contracts at universities. I'm not a pessimist, really I'm not, but from what I hear the University route lands you with classrooms full of either comatose or motor mouth students. Oh well.
To tell the truth I'm most interested in Linguists as an MA. I'd love to study links between the Indochinese languages or the Malay family of languages. I know tons of ESL already. Teaching is great, learning's even better.

[Glenski]

[bluetortilla]

Glenski,
Obviously you know me and my situation by now. You know as well as I do that Japan is nothing like it used to be, and even at its heyday most of the jobs were silly.
When someone says they've been in a place 20 years it doesn't mean that they've been doing what they're doing now. I owned a school. That was my greatest achievement here and it went well. Beware though, that small school owners in Japan are struggling too these days. I guess if I fought hard enough I could be an ALT and make 20000 USD a year for a moronic 'job.'
I think in your message to me you suggested translation or working in a Japanese company. Boy that sounds like fun. Actually I have an appointment next week with just that sort of agency but why work for a Japanese company when I can teach English somewhere else? Besides, Japanese would rather hire Japanese if they can. We know that.
Also, you seem to carry around the assumption that someone who is in Japan with a lot of experience wants to stay here. Like I said, Japan is OK, pleasant place. But I think I'd rather be elsewhere for a change. That's why I'm on this forum and not the Japan forum.
I don't mean this to be on the offense but I think you have a hard time seeing things out of your veteran MA/Ph.D world, and every time I post you say basically the same thing: how could someone with 'my' experience be doing so poorly? If you recheck the threads you can see my whole story, a story to which you've commented on numerous times. The only problem I have with your posts (the one's I've seen) is that you make Japan out to be a whole lot easier than it really is.
The fact remains that I know many people in Japan who have been here over 10 years. Some are doing well- one is selling Pokemon over the Internet to America and Europe and the other is stringing together U. contracts on an MA in Tokyo, but his contracts and schools keep changing. I know another MA who has enough money to live on but hates his job. The other few like me are scraping by, and one is a school owner. The other, like me, is trying to figure out what to do.. Both of us would be interested in business and trade, but you don't have to be in Japan to do it. Still others are in their 40's and doing ALT work. Ah, one more has a plush job- MA holder. Oh, one more guy- junior CEO to crunchyroll.com. We started out together at Sophia U. He got his first job at Panasonic at 22. Rich guy now.
Then there's all the fresh faced kids off the boat who basically spend what they earn as ALT's (my competition- ha!). Finally the dregs- people working in coffee shops for 13 USD an hour. I can easily make that in Cambodia and live on a quarter less.
I'm here to witness to people on the forum that Japan is tough gig right now and will continue to be so. Unless you land U. jobs or are some sort of professional, you're not going to save. Glenski's waving about my 20 years but he knows very well that not only is the English teaching industry in the pits right now with low wages (even he admits 5000 yen per class is very hard to get these days) and very expensive living costs, but that connections are crucial and if you somehow lose them you're in trouble. Also, if you're a teacher and that's what you want to do, an MA at the very least is imperative. Otherwise you'll find yourself being offered 18 USD per for 6 or 7 45 minute classes strung out over the week. It amazes me that such jobs are even offered to you with a straight face.
Don't let anyone think that there is something 'wrong' here with just me. It doesn't matter how long you've been here so much as who you know and if you're not prospering in spite of long years here I'd say that's against you. Being in your late 40's on is against you too. If you like Japan, if you want to be here, My advice is have your MA in hand before you come.
I owned a successful school for 10 years. I'm not an idiot in business. But actually, there is something wrong- it is the industry that's wrong. It doesn't know what it wants (more published papers perhaps?). The Ministry of Education calls for communicative English and the schools respond with extra effort in rote memorization. English in elementary school is supposed to be fun while in middle school it's tough. Hardly anybody on the street can speak more than a few awkward words of English. Teaching children is the most rewarding and promising sector of the business I'd say, and the best bet if you own a school. Don't expect much homework or encouragement at home though in regards to speaking. Japan is a flotilla whose flag ship has no rudder. That's what's wrong.

[creztor]

bluetortilla,
If you think Japan is bad, then why is anywhere else going to be any better? It really sounds like you have the "grass is greener on the other side of the fence" syndrome. Please, I am not trying to insult you in anyway, so don't take offense.

From all I have seen here in Taiwan and what I've read on forums, no matter where you go in Asia it seems to be pretty much more of the same. University jobs sounds good and require you to hold an MA or even a PhD, but typically turn out to be nothing more than teaching a bunch of unmotivated students. Not working in a university means you have to compete with FOB teachers who know nothing about the market and work for less and less each year. I KNOW there are exceptions and not EVERY job is like this, but I would say MOST are pretty much something along these lines. Wages have been stagnant or dropping, in part due to economic problems and the influx of teachers. More and more schools are opening up, but the population of most countries just isn't increasing enough to compensate for this.

I find myself in a similar situation to you, but without the years of experience you have. I've only been in Taiwan for 10 years, but I know that I either need to gear up (MA and then PhD) OR I have to live with teaching in a shrinking market with declining wages and opportunities. If I don't want to do either of those, then I need take a pay cut and work for a Taiwanese company, NOT something I want to do because of the LONG hours and LOW pay, or I have to go back to Australia and study for a year to become a licensed teacher. This is the reality I face. Do I like it? Not really, but that's life.

I think if people don't like the idea of getting old and competing with FOBs, then you really need to carve out a niche for yourself. I "should" be doing the same thing in Taiwan, which I haven't, so I know I have been slacking off. I am not trying to lecture you, but no matter where you go I think a large part of it depends on you. If you aren't happy in Japan, great, find somewhere you will be happy, put your roots down and build something for yourself. I hope you find what you are looking for.

[bluetortilla]

Hey! It IS greener in the tropics!

For the record: I'm NOT a negative person. I try to see the good side of things. Alas though, bad stuff smells bad and the truth shall set you free! So if the Ministry of Ed. needs bashing, then so be it.

From all the calculating I've done, wages aren't all that cheaper in countries besides Japan and it's a LOT cheaper to live. That means more savings and I'm on my way to an MA or investment. If I die trying, see ya in heaven. I ain't getting any younger just sitting here.

[bluetortilla]

By the way, I may be wrong but I get the impression that the situation in Taiwan is very similar to that here in Japan.

[creztor]

bluetortilla, the situation is bad and getting worse in Taiwan, but since I haven't taught in Japan before I can't honestly compare. However, there are almost no opportunities to teach adults here, and the birthrate problem has gotten so bad that within 5 years 1/3 of universities will have to close or merge. Cram schools for children now offer fewer hours, to the point where it is not uncommon for them to offer the bare minimum required to apply for a work permit, 14 hours. However, schools continue to pop up on every street corner. There is NO WAY they can survive in the coming environment. Wages have not increased in 10+ years, but the influx of teachers continues to grow. I used to live in an area where you would rarely see another white person, now you see them all the time. Things are going to get TERRIBLE here in the next five to ten years. This means that I need to get an MA and then maybe a PhD to try to protect myself in a market that is shrinking and will see many universities close, or I need to become a licensed teacher so I can compete with fewer FOBs for public school jobs. Now, don't I sound like a negative *beep*?

[bluetortilla]

yaa yaa. very similar. Don't think Japanese U.s are merging though. Whopping decline in adults, saturated with young foreigners everywhere (many have come to party), etc. etc.
It's not that the grass is greener elsewhere, or that the money is greener (or redder), but there's more of it! Proportionately anyway.
I certainly value quality over pay and don't mind working for less if the job is satisfying. I'm sort of reckless that way: I figure I'm gonna die anyway and I can't take money with me, so it's probably a good idea to focus on the quality of life today rather than be freaking out over 'retirement'. I for one hope I'm employed the day I die. Isn't that what we're here to do in life? Use our skills to benefit others?
Having said that I would like a decent paycheck from a decent school to achieve certain academic goals like yourself. And if the world IS indeed falling apart at least we're all in it together!

[Glenski]

I just reviewed a bunch of posts you and I made in other threads. I'm still a little amazed that you have not settled on something yet, especially with the excellent advice that others gave you (notably tttompatz and creztor).

[bluetortilla]

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