| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Stephen Jones
Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124
|
 Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 5:27 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
It's a 'near-miss' as opposed to 'missing the target by a mile', though for airplanes missing the other by a mile is a near-miss.
I think "the price of eggs in China" is correct. The point is that you want something totally unrelated to something else. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Ben Round de Bloc
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1946
|
| Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 7:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
I think "the price of eggs in China" is correct. The point is that you want something totally unrelated to something else.
- Stephen Jones |
| Quote: |
What Does That Have to Do with the Price of Tea in China?
This is a statement usually used to imply that something is totally unrelated to the current issue in focus. But why choose the "price of tea in China" as a comparison? This statement invokes a basic economic principle dealing with how goods are related to each other, and more generally how economists think about things.
Economists are wont to categorize things. Just like biologists like to sort the animals and the plants according to some overarching structure, so economists like to label things. These labels indicate relationships between different variables which, once the definitions are laid down, are easy to interpret and understand. Our current clich� suggests that something has nothing to do with the "price of tea in China," which in turn suggests that something else might indeed influence the price of tea in China . . .
Copyright � 1998, Craig A. Depken, II
http://www.uta.edu/depken/book/teainchina.html |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Stephen Jones
Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 4124
|
| Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 8:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
You're right. There's even an acronym for it - POTIC
I'll google before I post next time. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rj
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Posts: 159
|
| Posted: Tue May 11, 2004 12:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
I seem to have learned all the wrong expressions!  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Teacher Lindsay
Joined: 31 Mar 2004
Posts: 393
Location: Luxian, Sichuan
|
| Posted: Tue May 11, 2004 9:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
Ludwig wrote:-
| Quote: |
A great example of just how arbitrary Saussurean signs can be is one that has always puzzled me, viz., a 'near-miss'.
Surely if two or more objects nearly miss then they do indeed actually collide?
If I were to say that I 'nearly missed' the train, you would interpret that as meaning that I did indeed ultimately manage to catch the train, regardless of how close I was to missing it.
Though, in the context of aircraft, to cite but one such context, a 'near-miss' is interpreted as (essentially, in formal logic form), a near-hit. |
Ludwig, have you heard of a compound noun?
| Quote: |
| Compound nouns as a rule are adjectives or modifiers combined with nouns, such as "blackboard" originating from "black board"; "highlight" (high being adjective/modifier to light ...... |
Cheers |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ludwig
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 1096
Location: 22� 20' N, 114� 11' E
|
| Posted: Tue May 11, 2004 10:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
'Teacher Lindsay', yes, I have heard of (what you call) compound nouns; I came across them once or twice during my BA (Hons) and MA in linguistics.
You obviously have never ever studied formal logic and equally as obviously do not possess a single ounce of humour.
The 'near-miss' example is actually quite famous and, on your part, betrays a level of ignorance that is really quite shocking. I suggest you read 'Powers and prospects: reflections on human nature and the social order', London, Pluto Press, 1996) by Chomsky from where it is taken. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ludwig
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 1096
Location: 22� 20' N, 114� 11' E
|
| Posted: Tue May 11, 2004 10:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Stephen Jones wrote: |
| It's a 'near-miss' as opposed to 'missing the target by a mile' [...] |
Exactly, so why is it called a near-MISS? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
|
| Posted: Tue May 11, 2004 11:59 pm Post subject: Miss and run |
|
|
Dear Ludwig,
Hmm, maybe because it DID miss the person, but it was very near him.
I don't think the "near" really modifies "miss" here; it's more like ellipsis.
Regards.
John |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Teacher Lindsay
Joined: 31 Mar 2004
Posts: 393
Location: Luxian, Sichuan
|
| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 1:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
Dear Ludwig
| Quote: |
| The 'near-miss' example is actually quite famous and, on your part, betrays a level of ignorance that is really quite shocking. I suggest you read 'Powers and prospects: reflections on human nature and the social order', London, Pluto Press, 1996) by Chomsky from where it is taken. |
You are easily shocked!
Given that China has a population of approximately 1.3 billion people I'm sure that it would be possible for you to locate someone who is less likely than me to heed ANY suggestion YOU make. However, I'm equally sure that it would be a long and difficult search.
Cheers |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Snoopy
Joined: 13 Jul 2003
Posts: 185
|
| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 2:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Two more examples of the "near miss". "Very approximate" is used to mean "not very close", when logically it should be "very close indeed". Two traffic jams, one worse than the other: one is a "bottleneck". The worse one is referred to as a "bigger bottleneck", not a smaller or narrower one. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ludwig
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 1096
Location: 22� 20' N, 114� 11' E
|
| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 3:57 am Post subject: Re: Miss and run |
|
|
'Johnslat', thank you very much for your thoughtful and perceptive response.
| johnslat wrote: |
Dear Ludwig,
Hmm, maybe because it DID miss the person, but it was very near him.
I don't think the "near" really modifies "miss" here; it's more like ellipsis. |
So, and to paraphrase you, "it was very near him", can be rephrased as 'it was very near to hitting him', and thus could equally be described as a 'near-hit'.
Your reference to ellipsis means that you are beginning to see that, in fact, since 'near' in no way modifies 'miss', a 'near-miss' could just as easily (and arguably more 'logically', though my point is that this is not a factor in language) be described as a 'near-hit'.
I would remind the less rational posters that my original point referred to the arbitrary nature of Saussurean signs and, furthermore, was also (partly) in jest. However, those of you that have ever compiled formal logic programming codes or Wittgensteinian truth tables will know that an event such as a 'near-miss' must be represented as (something akin to) a 'near-hit' (and for that very reason alone is of some not inconsiderable interest). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
|
| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 6:04 am Post subject: You are a stupid **********er ! |
|
|
It sometimes seems that many of those who have studied Linguistics have never learned about "Style and Discourse in Academic Debate".
One does not call one's adversaries names when discussing some point. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
desultude
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 614
|
| Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 7:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
Here's one I hear from my Korean students. I think the meaning is something like "lost the plot". When they are trying to explain that they don't remember something because they had drunk too much soju, the tell me that they "cut the film."
"So, how did you get home last night?" "I don't know, teacher, we went drinking, and I cut the film."
I'm sure it is a rough English translation of a Korean expression- Konglish.
Another Konglish expression that I love is "Princess Sickness" or "Princess Illness." This is the disorder of thinking too highly of your self, or behaving like a princess. I especially like it when it is applied to men. It can be so appropriate. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Will.
Joined: 02 May 2003
Posts: 783
Location: London Uk
|
| Posted: Sun May 16, 2004 9:15 am Post subject: Square meals |
|
|
The square meals reference is to the plates on board being square so the would/could keep still on the messroom table in heavy weather.
Spill the beans, anyone?l |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
