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The Great Wall of Whiner
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 4946
Location: Blabbing
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 Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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Part One
I had no idea this would touch a raw nerve with some people, my apologies. Also sorry for slow-responding, been busy lately.
Look, not that it's anyone's business, but in all likelihood I'm going home soon (no need to stalk me and re-post my old posts...is that not creepy?) but I am looking for potential offers in China if in the off-chance anything better is around.
I have been challenged by the usual few to 'prove' my statements. I feel no need to, but I will to entertain the few 'challengers' for the last time (this will be my last time):
6-7000 a month for 20 hrs.
http://www.eslcafe.com/jobs/china/index.cgi?read=23695
10-13000 a month for 20 hrs.
http://www.eslcafe.com/jobs/china/index.cgi?read=23623
Both private schools, both the same hours.
Plenty more examples exist and I am not going to waste my time any longer doing what seems simple: look for it yourself; it exists.
I do not appreciate certain people implying that I am lying; I have no reason or motive to lie or mislead. Perhaps some teachers who moonlight as recruiters do have motive to keep salaries low. [cough cough]
Currently I'm looking at the market and have come across this time and time again, and in frustration I am looking for answers.
Nothing more.
Part Two
I am not discussing teaching without a degree; I am discussing salaries in the context of why some jobs offer a good salary and some offer lousy salaries for the same hours.
What I what to find out is why people are taking these jobs. Now I have a clearer idea as to why this is so. Thank you to the responders; to the flamers I have nothing to say to you except:
Address the message and not the messenger.
Part Three
The Mormon thing is completely off-topic, but I believe the church pays people a stipend to teach English abroad. |
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choudoufu
Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 3325
Location: Mao-berry, PRC
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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| ......pssstt....you got the wrong listing for job #1. |
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igorG
Joined: 10 Aug 2010
Posts: 1473
Location: asia
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| "Why would someone marry an ugly girl?" |
Or, why would someone hire an ugly girl? We, somehow indirectly, are customers in this market, and you know what happens when people more frequently buy something. We are customers to the forums, the job adverts on the site and, in my view, even to the employers in some peculiar way on mainland China. So, if you buy the offer, there'll be more to come. |
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GuestBob
Joined: 18 Jun 2011
Posts: 270
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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| igorG wrote: |
| We, somehow indirectly, are customers in this market, and you know what happens when people more frequently buy something. We are customers to the forums, the job adverts on the site and, in my view, even to the employers in some peculiar way on mainland China. So, if you buy the offer, there'll be more to come. |
Right idea, wrong vocabulary.
Posters of Dave's unite! You have nothing to lose except your chains. |
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Miajiayou
Joined: 30 Apr 2011
Posts: 283
Location: Nanjing
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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| It is possible they accidentally added an extra 'm', I suppose. |
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| This whole topic and the suppositions are at about the same level as "Why would someone marry an ugly girl?" |
Hehe.
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| no need to stalk me and re-post my old posts...is that not creepy? |
It is.
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| Perhaps some teachers who moonlight as recruiters do have motive to keep salaries low. [cough cough] |
This is one thing I have witnessed. When I was in Xi'an, I knew some teachers married to locals who were doing some recruiting to buy that all-important apartment. They intentionally misled many teachers regarding salaries, often spouting the same reasons we see in these posts. Cost of living is so low, it is impossible to spend all of your money, other benefits mean so much more -even the kicker, which I ironically referenced myself, that only alcoholics or other derelicts want a high salary in China.
While all of these things can be true, they are only meaningful when one recognizes that salary is also very important and being taken advantage of doesn't lead to anything good. |
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Miles Smiles
Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1294
Location: Heebee Jeebee
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you to the responders; to the flamers I have nothing to say to you except:
Address the message and not the messenger.
Okay, Whiner, the message s*cks. (Nobody said anything about you. Did you catch that? NOWHERE has anyone directly addressed you except to ask you to substantiate your claims). The message is accusatory, deliberately inflammatory, and wholly inappropriate for the cause of raising salaries for bona fide teachers.
When an offensive and inappropriate song is played in a public venue, it is certainly tempting to rebuke the piano player rather than the song he's playing because once the song has been played it's already out there. In such cases, the piano player is clearly the problem for having chosen the song.
Some of you have FAKE DEGREES or NO DEGREES or else you would go to bloody Japan and/or Korea to make a lot more.
Very bad song. I certainly hope that it isn't played again.
More Cheese for your whine:
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GuestBob
Joined: 18 Jun 2011
Posts: 270
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Well I for one am slightly surprised that this thread made it all the way to page 3 before being closed. |
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7969
Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| The Great Wall of Whiner wrote: |
| no need to stalk me and re-post my old posts... |
First, it's not stalking, it's called checking up on the facts. YOUR facts. YOUR words. YOU posted them. No-one else. And why shouldn't it be done? Because you're embarrassed that your "inconsistencies" have been revealed and have finally caught up to you? Because time after time you rail against people who earn a measly 100/hr and then its proven you earn exactly the same? If you don't want to be caught out like this again here's a friendly suggestion: be more careful what you post in future.
| The Great Wall of Whiner wrote: |
| I do not appreciate certain people implying that I am lying; I have no reason or motive to lie or mislead. Perhaps some teachers who moonlight as recruiters do have motive to keep salaries low. [cough cough] |
Your inconsistent posts ARE misleading. If you can keep the story straight maybe what you write won't be called into question (see below for a few samples). More importantly, the implication that anyone who disagrees with you is a recruiter in disguise with bad intentions is both insulting and unproven.
| The Great Wall of Whiner wrote: |
| I have been challenged by the usual few to 'prove' my statements. I feel no need to |
With all due respect, when I read this the word "hubris" came to mind.
Yes, you're right, both private schools, both the same hours.
Now that you've disclosed the links let's take a closer look at the details just so we're clear:
1. Instead of a flat out salary differential of RMB8000 that we were initially led (or misled?) to believe its now possibly as small as RMB3000. Don't try and tell me everyone who applies for and gets one of these kindy jobs is going straight to the top of the pay scale. . . Still the higher paying job pays more in any case - I concede that point.
2. The higher paying job is working with kids aged 2-6 while the lower paying job only says "children" which probably means primary or elementary. Anyone working with infants/kids aged 2-6 is going to bust their ball$ for their salary and better pack those suitcases full of "passion and energy" before showing up. Not only that, the higher paying job requires going through a recruiter, you don't even know where you're going to end up. I'd give the advantage to the lower paying job.
3. Regarding the additional benefits: the lower paying job offers twice as much vacation time, and more than twice as much money for flight reimbursement. The 3,600 offered by the higher paying job won't even get you home on the cheapest one way ticket. Are these the fantastic benefits Gold Star TEFL Recruitment is touting? Advantage to the lower paying job on both counts.
4. Contrary to what you posted earlier** the lower paying job is the one that offers free, furnished apartment (not shared), while the higher paying job only offers an accommodation allowance of RMB1,500. That paltry sum won't get much for you if you end up at their Beijing school. Big advantage to the lower paying job.
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| The Great Wall of Whiner wrote: |
JOB 1: 13,000 a month, private housing,etc. 20 hrs. a week.
JOB 2: 5,000 a month, shared housing. 20 hrs. a week. |
5. The higher paying job calls for (in addition to the 20 teaching hours) teaching related responsibilities including, but not limited to demonstration classes and conversation clubs AND attendance at social events. There's more red flags here than a Mayday parade. The other job makes no mention of any such thing. A big edge to the lower paying job.
If salary is your only consideration then the higher paying job might be the one for you. If quality of life and/or job/off duty satisfaction are your goals, the lower paying job is probably a better choice. But after seeing all the details for these two jobs, I now question why this thread was even started.
In the end, people can take whatever job they want for whatever reason they want and no-one on here should be so presumptuous as to start telling others what they should or shouldn't do and why or why not. Not everyone needs, or wants, the help. |
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Zero
Joined: 08 Sep 2004
Posts: 1402
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Are you two in another lovers' spat? Get a room. |
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beenthere96-2005
Joined: 01 Aug 2010
Posts: 79
Location: St Louis
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:15 pm Post subject: do not work for minimum wages |
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| GuestBob wrote: |
| Well I for one am slightly surprised that this thread made it all the way to page 3 before being closed. |
That is why I am going to be nice.
I have always had a wife and child to support while I was working overseas in Korea and Taiwan. I did teach for a short time in China for a Taiwanese owned school who were desperate for a teacher - I made $2000 a month for a semester which was less than I was making in Taiwan.
Either China can afford foreign teachers who come from countries where salaries are higher than the norm , or they cannot.
Teachers who work there for these shameful wages allow the Chinese to get away with that.
Employers the world over will pay the least amount of wages they can get a away with.
If you let them. |
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SahanRiddhi
Joined: 18 Sep 2010
Posts: 267
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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Can the poster of this comment, please elaborate.
'I am a Mormon and I am not too concerned about the salary'.
Is it because you are already wealthy? |
When you have the Light in your life, that is all the wealth you need. PM me for details. |
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eurobound
Joined: 04 Apr 2011
Posts: 155
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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| SahanRiddhi wrote: |
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Can the poster of this comment, please elaborate.
'I am a Mormon and I am not too concerned about the salary'.
Is it because you are already wealthy? |
When you have the Light in your life, that is all the wealth you need. PM me for details. |
Why be so coy? Out with it man!!! |
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JamesD
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
Posts: 934
Location: "As far as I'm concerned bacon comes from a magical happy place."
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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| dean_a_jones wrote: |
| Non Sequitur wrote: |
Can the poster of this comment, please elaborate.
'I am a Mormon and I am not too concerned about the salary'. |
It is possible they accidentally added an extra 'm', I suppose. |
What's an ormon? |
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eurobound
Joined: 04 Apr 2011
Posts: 155
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm a Catholic so as long as I feel guilty about the salary I'm earning, I'm grand |
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7969
Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Zero wrote: |
| Are you two in another lovers' spat? Get a room. |
It's all in good fun, and we're all in this together. I don't think anyone's too worked up about any of this stuff |
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