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askiptochina
Joined: 26 Feb 2010
Posts: 488
Location: Beijing
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 Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 6:58 am Post subject: What is the use of a residence permit after you quit job 1? |
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I am trying to understand the use of a residence permit vs. a work visa. It's pretty straightforward for your first job. You need both. However, when you quit school 1, they report that you no longer work. In addition, they don't usually cancel your residence permit. Am I correct so far?
So, what do you do then with this residence permit? Does it function like an L visa? You can live but not work until you get a new school and update the changes with the entry exit bureau?
Would it be ok to leave a job after 6 months, and then before the year is up go to another school? Or is there a shorter period, like 2 weeks, where you need to find a new school?
If so, what happens to your residence permit after the 2 weeks (or whatever duration is set)? |
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John9900
Joined: 16 Sep 2010
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 8:43 am Post subject: |
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The school might not cancel your residence permit (although, they can if they want) but they�ll most probably not give you the release letter. With out it the new school cannot transfer or renew the RP.
Unless of course they agree with you quitting and give you the release letter. |
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lockedinadrawer
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
Posts: 16
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| Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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It's quite simple.
A Z work visa ONLY allows you to ENTER the country for purposes of employment. In a practical sense, it is valid ONLY for 30 days.
Once you enter the country, the Z visa, is essential null and void.
Once you enter the country, you have 30 days to go to the PSB and obtain a resident permit (RP). The RP allows you to RESIDE in-country (in this case for purpose of employment).
The visa and the RP for that matter are tied to your employer. Once the contract expires, or the foreign expert certificate expires, the RP is then void.
It's quite simple really. If you are not employed by the host of the visa/RP then you are residing illegally. |
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askiptochina
Joined: 26 Feb 2010
Posts: 488
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| It's quite simple really. If you are not employed by the host of the visa/RP then you are residing illegally. |
That's what my question centers on. My understanding is when you stop, the school tells PSB that you don't work. However, I also understand your RP still exists (still valid). Is this true?
If so, how does your RP function after the school informs PSB you are no longer working for them? |
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Miajiayou
Joined: 30 Apr 2011
Posts: 283
Location: Nanjing
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| Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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| askiptochina wrote: |
| If so, how does your RP function after the school informs PSB you are no longer working for them? |
As far as I know, you could still able to reside in the country legally, but you are unable to work legally for anyone else unless they cancel your old RP and sponsor you for a new one.
I've actually never heard that it is common for schools to not cancel your RP after you quit. I always assumed it would be done. But, I don't think I've ever known anyone who quit their job. |
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choudoufu
Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 3325
Location: Mao-berry, PRC
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| Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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your rp is valid until it expires, usually at or near the end
of your contract. the validity date should roughly correspond
to the date of contract end -- sometimes you'll get an extra
couple weeks tacked on for domestic travel or to facilitate
moving to a new job/location.
if you leave before your contract ends? there's probably a
law covering this. but is it enforced? |
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askiptochina
Joined: 26 Feb 2010
Posts: 488
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:21 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| your rp is valid until it expires, usually at or near the end of your contract. |
What if you quit before the contract period, mutual agreement between you and your employer ("If you don't pay me overtime or reduce the workload, I quit", "Ok, you're fired then." That's how it went down and we still worked together to get another teacher and have them move into my apartment.)?
They called me up asking me to leave immediately because a new teacher wanted to move into my apartment. I had paid rent because they were willing to give me more for housing allowance if I put up the rent money. They later reimbursed me in full for the remaining months and the yajin/security deposit. So, there were no problems working with them after I left, and there wasn't any reason to treat either party badly.
| Quote: |
| if you leave before your contract ends? there's probably a law covering this. but is it enforced? |
Apparently not. My new school has shown the police station my passport which clearly shows a different province and they also went after I got my new residence permit from the PSB in a different province. I went once also to sign for the new residence permit with the school.
I am just surprised, the dates are all there. There is clearly a 3-4 month gap between when I lived at my old place and when I went to apply for the new residence permit. Nobody has asked me, "What were you doing during those months?"
If the new school tells the police station at the time the teacher moves to the new place (like within a day or so), do they simply forgo it?
The same kind of thing happened before my previous school (another incident). I was going to work at another school, and I was on a student visa at the time. I sat down at the police station and they went through my passport. The guy clearly saw my student visa and commented "student" to the school I was going to teach at. But they did nothing. The police knew I would be teaching.
It's weird, if they aren't going to care about it, then I don't see why we can't just get the residence permit when the work visa is issued. It seems like we are doing more steps than necessary. |
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dean_a_jones
Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 1151
Location: Wuhan, China
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:59 am Post subject: |
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| askiptochina wrote: |
I am just surprised, the dates are all there. There is clearly a 3-4 month gap between when I lived at my old place and when I went to apply for the new residence permit. Nobody has asked me, "What were you doing during those months?"
If the new school tells the police station at the time the teacher moves to the new place (like within a day or so), do they simply forgo it? |
It sounds to me as though you got a new RP at the new school without a release letter, which in theory you need to transfer a RP from one school to another. I imagine that if your current school has the right connections, doing this is probably not much different from getting someone a RP when they are on an L rather than Z visa. As for the 4 month interval, I suppose they didn't much care about that either.
Such is China, anything can happen--but I would still advise anyone leaving a job to get the release letter from their school. As you have your new RP, I suppose everything seems to have worked out ok for you. |
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askiptochina
Joined: 26 Feb 2010
Posts: 488
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:39 am Post subject: |
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| I would still advise anyone leaving a job to get the release letter from their school. As you have your new RP, I suppose everything seems to have worked out ok for you. |
Yes, it seems to be ok. Now that the paperwork is updated and I have a new RP, I'll see how the workload is this semester. They keep tacking additional classes after one group of classes is finished. Since it's summer, I am not teaching at the public school yet.
As far as getting the release letter, I guess there are 2 kinds. One is not as official as the other. If you transfer to a school within the same province, definitely get a release letter. It will save you a lot of time, headaches, and some money. However, if you are transferring to another province you need to check with the PSB what they want. It will do no good nagging your old school for something the PSB in the new area will reject. That's what happened to me. We never could get the form, and I talked with the owner who was also unsure.
He had never given a release letter to someone going to another province. We didn't have enough time to get the right document the PSB in Beijing was expecting. Luckily the school was able to work something out. One of the officers there went to school with the manager at my current school. Perhaps, that was what helped. |
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dean_a_jones
Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 1151
Location: Wuhan, China
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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| askiptochina wrote: |
| However, if you are transferring to another province you need to check with the PSB what they want. It will do no good nagging your old school for something the PSB in the new area will reject. That's what happened to me. We never could get the form, and I talked with the owner who was also unsure. |
Any chance you could expand on this and say what the specific problems were, I imagine it would be useful to know. (Or if you have already done this elsewhere on the forum, pass on the link).
Last edited by dean_a_jones on Wed Aug 17, 2011 4:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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askiptochina
Joined: 26 Feb 2010
Posts: 488
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| dean_a_jones wrote: |
| askiptochina wrote: |
| However, if you are transferring to another province you need to check with the PSB what they want. It will do no good nagging your old school for something the PSB in the new area will reject. That's what happened to me. We never could get the form, and I talked with the owner who was also unsure. |
Any chance you could expand on this and say what the specific problems where, I imagine it would be useful to know. (Or if you have already done this elsewhere on the forum, pass on the link). |
I don't mind repeating myself. You can also search my previous posts about letter of release issues.
I sincerely believe that the previous school owner doesn't know about the procedures involved with getting things done in China. He is American and married into a Chinese family. He hires Chinese people to do the legwork, and we even made payment plans for my salary which were not conveyed to his wife. So, small issues like this came up all the time, where we just realized it was better for him not to be the central figure. He also teaches a full load and when he got rid of drivers, he had to go out and drive students back and forth.
He had one main secretary who did all the work. But after I left, she also left. We called the school and asked for someone to send this letter of release. They sent something to my current school which 2 other teachers in Shenyang used when they went to a new school in Shenyang. However, whatever they sent was not good enough for the Beijing PSB. Maybe the Shenyang PSB has it on "local file" that those teachers left the school, so they didn't need something more official.
Would the secretary have known of a better form? I don't know. There was no way to contact her because she left. We had to talk to the Chinese teachers there for help on this and they were clueless as to what to do. Somebody on here sent me something in email I could use, but by then it was too late. My current school already took 4 trips to the PSB to find out what they could do, and the last time PSB ok'd it without whatever form they wanted.
As much as we would like to believe they speak English, they only know enough to get the normal process done, like McDonald's workers memorizing a script. If you ask them to explain in English why the form is not accepted, they can't do that. So, I have no way to know for certain what form Beijing PSB was expecting.
For Shenyang, it was just a simple matter of visiting the PSB with the previous teachers.
So, I guess the point is, if you are going to change provinces you should take the letter of release form to the new PSB as soon as possible. If they don't accept it, try to find out why and then go back to the old school's location and get it in person. This way you have a place to stay at in both provinces. If you wait like I did, then your only choice would be to take a train and stay at some hotel for the sake of getting a form you could have sorted out earlier.
It's easy for a recruiter to say, "You'll just need blah blah documents." Maybe not so easy to satisfy the PSB. I am not convinced PSB's here are as efficient and know what to do like immigration in Korea does. China has more leniency on issuing visas, so there isn't one way to do things. I would never have been able to sit at a police station in Korea on a student visa while my private school (hagwon) owner told the police I will be changing my student visa to a work visa "soon". Korea just wouldn't allow it if they knew. In China, it's another story. |
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