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sanpedro72
Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Posts: 86
Location: Earth
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 Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:01 am Post subject: Part work, part visa |
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Hello China experts,
I've got a strange situation on my hands. Job offer in China, but the school is not initiating the visa process. I was told I have to start the process. To make matters more complicated I'm traveling/living between Vietnam and Cambodia a present. I have contacted those representative China embassies, which both said that the employer must first take action. Is this school lazy and/or incompetent, should I look for a different job in China?
Thanks for your advice in advance.
J |
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dean_a_jones
Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 1151
Location: Wuhan, China
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:21 am Post subject: Re: Part work, part visa |
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| sanpedro72 wrote: |
| I've got a strange situation on my hands. Job offer in China, but the school is not initiating the visa process. I was told I have to start the process. To make matters more complicated I'm traveling/living between Vietnam and Cambodia a present. I have contacted those representative China embassies, which both said that the employer must first take action. Is this school lazy and/or incompetent, should I look for a different job in China? |
I am not really sure what you mean by you have to 'start the process'. If you want to enter on a z-visa (the legal requirement if coming over for work) then the school needs to obtain, from the local government, the correct paperwork for you to apply for this. You will first need to send them your CV, passport scans, scanned pages of a signed 'contract' and usually a medical check (see the sticky thread on this). Then the school will sort out what you need, send it over, and you can apply.
It sounds to me that the school wants you to come over on an L-visa (tourist visa), which will not allow you to work legally. Most schools cannot upgrade these, and you might find that even if everything goes OK, you will need to leave China (for HK or even worse, your home country) to apply for the z-visa and reenter on it, so you can then get the Residency Permit and Foreign Experts Certificate which will allow you to live and work here legally. Teachers often (usually?) need to pay for this extra trip themselves.
Some schools may want you to come quickly (the semester begins soon), and don't want to delay the process for the 2 or 3 weeks it takes to sort out the paperwork (i.e. it is getting sorted while you are on your way over/arriving). You would then do your visa run and be working legally. However, others might just want to get you here to give you a job interview, after which they might say 'no thanks' and you are stuck in China with no job. Even worse, they might try to have you work illegally on a tourist visa, which opens you up to all sorts of trouble and abuse (such as not being paid) which you cannot complain about, given your illegal status.
So while it may not necessarily be that you are dealing with a school that is useless and/or trying to screw you over, the signs are not good if at stage one they are unwilling to help you as they should.
As always, the more information you can provide (name of school, public or private, location, salary offer, contract details etc.) will help people better assess the actual situation and look for trouble signs. Getting the contact details for current teachers and speaking to them might also help clear things up. |
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sanpedro72
Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Posts: 86
Location: Earth
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 6:10 am Post subject: more info |
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Thanks dean_a_jones for the clear answer and some helpful things to consider. I've read the sticky thread...that seems to be step 2 for me. As for step 1, I've signed the 10-month contract (summers unpaid so the contract finishes when school is out, is this normal?) with Guangdong Country Garden School (boarding school) in Foshan City, near Guangzhou. The contract starts Sept 1 but school doesn't commence until a few weeks after. The monthly salary is post-tax 11,500.
The person who hired me said I needed to check about applying for a Visa. She said I had to apply for a work visa on my own. And they would apply for another one once I got there(???). I mentioned the tourist Visa then going to HK or Macau to change Visas, but I was then told the school won't take that route... So in other words I'm asked to 'start the process' by going to Chinese embassies in the country I'm in and apply for the work visa there. It sounds a bit fishy. What the school is asking me to do is contradictory to what's written in the contract. That is, the school is responsible.
Thanks again and I hope the details are sufficient.
Cheers! |
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dean_a_jones
Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 1151
Location: Wuhan, China
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:22 am Post subject: Re: more info |
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| sanpedro72 wrote: |
| As for step 1, I've signed the 10-month contract (summers unpaid so the contract finishes when school is out, is this normal?) with Guangdong Country Garden School (boarding school) in Foshan City, near Guangzhou. The contract starts Sept 1 but school doesn't commence until a few weeks after. The monthly salary is post-tax 11,500. |
Unpaid summer months are not unusual with a contract ending. What is worth finding out is, if you do decide to stay for a second year and therefore sign a new contract, will you get paid for the summer months (and if they provide you with an apartment, will you be able to stay in that)? Contracts will usually end in June, but for some schools teachers who stay on get their salary during the summer. Do they pay you during the winter break as well?
As for the September 1st/later start, make sure you are clear on when you are being paid--however, at this point, to arrive by September 1st is not very likely if you sort out the visa correctly. If you arrive late, will they start your pay from that date instead? Worth asking.
The pay is pretty good, do you get a free apartment or do you need to supply your own? How many hours a week of teaching is that for, and do you have to have office hours as well?
| Quote: |
| The person who hired me said I needed to check about applying for a Visa. She said I had to apply for a work visa on my own. And they would apply for another one once I got there(???). I mentioned the tourist Visa then going to HK or Macau to change Visas, but I was then told the school won't take that route... So in other words I'm asked to 'start the process' by going to Chinese embassies in the country I'm in and apply for the work visa there. It sounds a bit fishy. |
It sounds like there is could just be a breakdown in communication. You do need to apply for the visa (and pay for it) 'on your own' so to speak--i.e. you need to go to the embassy and hand in the stuff, pay and collect it. However, you cannot apply for a work visa without the correct documentation, which the school needs to apply for, and then send the original, physical copies to you. The only way you can go to the embassy and apply for a visa without supporting documentation is by getting an L (tourist) visa, which as I said is wrong.
Here are some specific details:
http://www.travelchinaguide.com/embassy/visa/work.htm
Visa information in Cambodia (http://kh.china-embassy.org/chn/lsfw/hzqz/, no English) and Vietnam (http://vn.china-embassy.org/chn/, no visa information). You might get more country specific information if anyone recently made the move from one of these to China to teach.
This is the information in Chinese, on the Cambodian site, asking for the documents:
4、中国被授权单位签发的签证通知函原件和复印件和中国劳动和社会保障部签发的《外国人就业许可证书》或中国外国专家局签发的《聘请外国专家确认件》。(http://kh.china-embassy.org/chn/lsfw/hzqz/t518810.htm)
If it is simply a intercommunication issue, you might want to send that to them and ask them if they are providing this, as required, and when you can expect it.
When you arrive, you then need to change your z-visa into a residency permit, which you have 30 days to do. The school will do this for you (and often pay for this step, though not always), as well as getting you a Foreign Experts Certificate. These documents will allow you to remain in the country to work for a year and allow multiple exits and entries (as long as they are valid). The z-visa is only the enter the country. So when they say, when you arrive, they will help you apply for 'another one', this is what they are referring to.
| Quote: |
| What the school is asking me to do is contradictory to what's written in the contract. That is, the school is responsible. |
Yes, they are responsible for getting you the right paperwork to allow you to make the z-visa application. They are also responsible for changing your z-visa into the proper working documentation once you arrive.
Finally, it is worth noting that the school needs to get your documents to state that you will be applying for the visa in a country other than your home country. If they do not do this, you will find that you will need to go home to apply for your visa (i.e. return to the country your passport is issued from).
Hope that helps. |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 8:25 am Post subject: |
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Dean_A_J has covered most things, but just check if a late start ie after 1 Sept, sets you up to have your airfare allowance prorated � assuming that a refund or allowance part of your package.
Doubt that the employer would quibble over a day or two, but things that Westerners would find unbelievably nitpicking, Chinese will see as commonplace.
It could be an official clawback, or it could be the FAO skimming the pot.
Better to know about it at the start of the gig rather than on the last day when your payment is 3-500RMB short. |
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Mister Al
Joined: 28 Jun 2004
Posts: 840
Location: In there
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| Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:22 am Post subject: |
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| You CANNOT apply for a Z visa on your own. The paper work MUST be provided by the employer. |
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LanGuTou
Joined: 23 Mar 2009
Posts: 621
Location: Shandong
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| Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Mister Al wrote: |
| You CANNOT apply for a Z visa on your own. The paper work MUST be provided by the employer. |
Simply and straightforwardly this!
Unless you have an offer of paid employment from a legitimate organization or you have your own fully registered company, you cannot get a working (Z) visa in the PRC.
The school must go through the correct channels and get an invitation letter for you to get the visa. None of this, you can do off your own back. |
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