Job Discussion Forums

[forgot2panic]

Hello All. I feel very fortunate to have discovered this wonderful resource.

My question has several tiers to it, a few probably immaterial, but I felt it best to supply some context. If this comes across as my asking for "life" advice, well, perhaps there's a bit of that mixed in as well. Maybe I'll get lucky and find someone with similar ambitions.

Having floundered as a writer in Hollywood for the last 5 years, I've decided to return to school, with hopes of becoming a college Eng/Lit professor. I've been out of school for almost 10 years, having graduated with a BA in Cinematic Arts from USC (which didn't open as many doors as some might imagine).

I've always enjoyed sharing knowledge. From high school through college, I spent 10-20 hours a week as a tutor. After graduating, I worked as a part time teacher at a private elementary school. (Upon my departure, the owner of the school predicted that I would end up as a teacher, though I laughed it off at the time, still beguiled by dreams of being a screenwriter.) Not to turn this into an anti-Hollywood rant, but I'm certainly not happy with the state of the industry, something that I like to think has more to do with philosophical objections than career stagnation. Anyways, I guess I fought my better inclinations this long only to try and prove certain people wrong about my original degree/career choice. Thus went my stubbornness.

After a good deal of deliberation over the last year, my goal's loosely ordered timetable is as follows:

1) Save solid relocation reserve fund
2) Earn TEFL cert.
3) Move to Montreal
4) Find TEFL post/work
5) Fulfill application prerequisites (as I wasn't an English major)
6) Apply/Enroll in school
7) Graduate
8) Become a working Prof and thank those on this forum for their advice

As for number 1, due to the cost of living in LA, it may be 1-1.5 years before I make my move. So, pre-advice, I thought to use this period to accomplish number 2. The biggest question I have is will my cert be worth anything in the Montreal TEFL market?

If anyone is thinking to advise against 3, here's my rationale for Montreal. I'm have dual citizenship US/CA. Relatively low cost of living for a big city. Several prestigious universities. Good public transportation (in case I sell my car). Opportunity to practice my 3 years of college French. Do not have to worry about health coverage. University fees (for residents) are far lower than those in the US on average.

With numbers 5 and 6, I'm wondering how flexible most ESL schools are with hours, in case I need to continue working while in grad school?

Is this all pie in the sky stuff to the vets out there? Is this doable? Besides the hard work and late nights inherent in working while in school, are there any pitfalls on my roadmap that I've either overlooked or don't have the knowledge to anticipate?

Hope I don't come across like just another floundering, under-employed college grad looking for answers in a weak job market. While the economy is certainly exacerbating my struggles and is likely to make the above goals more of a challenge, the nature of my quandary predicts that I'd probably being facing the same dilemma even in boom times.

[SahanRiddhi]

I think it's a useless plan, almost all of it.

I do not know the Montreal ESL job market. Here's what I suspect: part-time work, low wages.

My impression of the market for English/lit. professors in North America: exceedingly limited. My impression of the supply: more than abundant.

My opinion of spending the time and money (and taking on debt) to become such a professor: one-way ticket to sorrow.

EVEN if you successfully became such a professor, the pay is relatively low and paying off the student debt that I assume you would accrue would be hard.

In the more likely event you do not secure entree into that profession, you'll be back at Square One, except a few years older and with more debt.

Here's my suggestion: Do a program to get certified for K-12. You could focus on English. Try out the U.S. or Canadian job markets for a bit, then, if you like, teach overseas at an international school for good money. Now that's a career!

[Glenski]

[MotherF]

[forgot2panic]

SahanRiddhi, I appreciate your frankness. If I had my choice, I'd rather work with college ages/subject matter, but I certainly like teaching enough to consider younger kids if plan A seems unfeasible.

One reason I chose Montreal is because of its relative low cost of living. I can live with part time and low wages as long as I can scape by and make progress towards my goals. It's my understanding that English has become compulsory in Quebec. My reasoning was that since French is the first language of the majority, that the ESL market would be ample.

Also, from my research, one can attend grad school in Canada for a fraction of what it costs in America, at least if he/she is a citizen and an established resident of the Provence. I certainly wouldn't want to burden myself with much more debt than I already have.

Thanks for the K-12 suggestion. Again, it's something into which I'll certainly put some thought.

Glenski, I guess I have to plead ignorance. I know there are a bunch of certificate courses out there. What I should have asked was Which certificate would be of the most benefit when seeking a position in Montreal? That is, something I could earn while in the states and which would be widely recognized in Canada.

Yes, maybe I'll throw that specific question out in NA forum, as you suggested.

Thanks a million!

[forgot2panic]

[tttompatz]

Move to Toronto or Vancouver and do script writing (better chance of finding work). You will do better than you would trying to teach ESL in Montreal (where about 40% of the population is NOT Francophone).

Teach ESL in Mexico (you can go now) or Asia (you also meet the requirements for a work visa).

You'll save more money teaching EFL in Asia over the next 5 years than you will working in the states over the next 5 years and certainly more than you would teaching ESL in Montreal over the next 5 years.

One caveat, IF you hold a related masters degree (MATESOL, MA Applied Lingustics, etc) rather than getting a 2nd Bachelors degree in English Lit then there IS work at the university level teaching EFL/ESL to foreign students AND they have a not bad remuneration package.

A TEFL course won't do much for you in terms of employment in Montreal.

.

[dean_a_jones]

I am slightly confused, as at first you mentioned becoming an English/Literature Professor. I would think that at any Western university (perhaps not community college in the US) you would be expected to hold at least an MA in your subject, and for any credible university, you would also be expected to be obtaining a PhD simultaneously if you don't already hold it.

Having never taught ESL in the west, I am not sure how closely this will come to being 'professor like' in a school, but imagine it will be a lot more casual (with lowish pay and lack of tenure as a result).

You later said you don't want to make a career out of it, but it is better than being a waiter. This might be true, but as other have stated, this (especially the higher education part) will mean you land in a pile of debt, something that working in a restaurant doesn't entail (or at least doesn't require a down payment for the privilege).

It sounds to me like you are at a fork in the road and need to carefully consider your career options going forward. Unlike in your early 20s, another long-term investment such as a degree could set you back and mean that it will be another 5-8 years before you realise this path was also one you don't want to follow. If you are serious about ESL, get a diploma and try it out first (if you can find something, it may require you to leave the US or Canada).

If you want to teach at university (or younger children) subjects rather than language, this usually requires serious time, money and educational investment to become properly qualified, and is not a decision you should take lightly.

On the bright side, it at least sounds like you have a fair few options to consider. If Montreal is your ideal (you seem like you really want to live there) then I would make that move, settle into what work you can find, and start thinking hard about what to do over the next 6 months or year. Not to say that you cannot backtrack, but from guessing your age based on the info provided, I think the next big decision and career move is going to be a significant one in regards to mapping out a path that leads to a comfortable future.

Good luck.

[naturegirl321]

I can't speak for Montreal or Canada, maybe try posting on the North American forum? BUt in general

You should be able to work and do a TEFL cert IF you can find one that's on the weekends and reputable. I know that SIT offers some weekends ones, basically it's 2 to 4 months of weekends, but don't know if there are any close to you. Most peopel just take a one month intensive course. teflcertificationabroad.com might help you find one. Barring that, check with your local colleges and unis, they might have a semestre of TEFL 101 or something like that.

TEFL Certs, CELTA, Trinity, and SIT are probably the most well known, but generic certs are ok as well, just make sure they have enough hours, 100-120 plus 6 of teaching practice. And if you study a whole semestre at a uni, that would probably be better than just one month at a TEFL school.

TEFL work, again in general, can be flexible. If you teach business peopel,, you can work in the early morning and evenings and use the rest of the time as you please, provided it's ok with the school.

AS for becoming a prof: in the west I gather it's hard, many places want PhDs and publications galore, many smaller colleges or community colleges might work. In parts of Asia, China, Korea, it's pretty easy to get a job at a university, though it's not as prestigious as in the US.

If you're specifically looking at becoming a prof, take a look at some of the adverts on higheredjobs, tesol.org, and the chronicle and you'll get an idea of what you'll need to apply. Some peopel have done it, try PMing denise for example.

[AGoodStory]

[Guy Courchesne]

[maastricht]

Oh dear... I hate giving people "life advice" as if I actually knew what was good for them, but something about being in a cozy Bulgarian pub has numbed my sense of social propriety so...

May I ask why you want to be an Eng prof and what your expectations are regarding the process?

I got my PhD in Eng Lit when I was 24 from what was at the time one of the top Lit depts in the UK (no idea what it is ranked now since I've been out of the field for so long). I got my first publication accepted when I was 25 (lead article in a scholarly book) and that same year I left academia and took a gap year teaching ESL before changing careers.

When I was 21-24, I really enjoyed the intense academic environment and believed passionately in my research. But looking back the experience seems ridiculous from a practical standpoint. In my final academic year, I was under intense pressure to publish so I could get a job. But there are not that many academic journals available to publish in, and you have to target those journals that match your specific area of research (which is generally quite narrow). And you are competing with all the scholars in your field from all over the world for publication space, including full professors.

It took me at least three months to prepare my article for publication and I wasn't even paid for it. I had to quadruple check every little thing to make sure there were no mistakes. This was just for one measly publication. And the job search is round after round after round of extremely competitive applications and interviews, for jobs paying crap by US standards.

In contrast, for my gap year job, I did JET Program, which required one short, easy, warm and fuzzy interview and it paid more (taking into account taxation) than an intensely competitive, stressful associate professor position.

After I changed careers, I briefly worked as adjunct faculty at a private US university so I could "use my PhD," while holding a full-time position in another field. While there were personal rewards, the pay was below minimum wage. The students were paying outrageous amounts of money for their education, far more than the education could possibly be worth, and who do they take it out on but the below-minimum-wage faculty member, who has to put in outrageous hours to attempt to satisfy bitter, angry college students with six figure student debt.

I'm Gen X so I had time to change careers and make money before the financial system started to blow up. Most of Gen Y and Z will have a much smaller margin of error than what I had and certainly what the Boomers had and you have to ignore your Boomer parents and teachers if they are telling you to "follow your dreams."

[sparks]

[santi84]

I'm in Montreal.

If you are a duel citizen and have passable French (fluent is preferred, of course!) then you should not have too much trouble finding a job. Whether or not that job pays enough money to sustain your living is another story. You may need to supplement your income for a while.

I assume you are looking at McGill University for further education? If so, you should be able to find work around there but competition can be stiff. Most people in Montreal itself are functionally bilingual (or polygots). A lot of the work comes from teaching business students (who wish to improve their high intermediate/advanced English) and immigrants who want English as a 3rd language.

Consider living somewhere along the metro and working on the south shore rather than the island of Montreal. I live 30 minutes from downtown and few people here speak English - once you get a bit outside of Montreal, your market grows considerably.

TESL Canada Level I certification is the bare minimum (see the TESL link the previous poster gave to verify).

If you enjoy teaching ESL in Montreal, you may want to consider becoming qualified to teach in a CEGEP (MA TESOL) or become provincially certified to teach ESL in elementary/secondary school. If you get your BEd in TESL, the schools will have a throw down with each other to to hire you - qualified TESL teachers for provincial schools are in very, very high demand.

I recently moved here from Vancouver in May. ESL is in higher demand in Vancouver but the cost of living is not much different than LA. While there is a lot of work in Vancouver, most of it is bottom feeder pay. The pay out in Montreal is a bit higher but so are the hiring standards.

[forgot2panic]

@dean_a_jones: Thanks for putting some thought into my �fork in the road�. Sorry if I was less than clear.