Job Discussion Forums

[posh]

I'm wondering if we turned the tables and had a discussion about what management think of teachers, what would they come up with?

- Whingers, forever moaning about apartments, bad pay ...
- Unprofessional.
- Should be happy with what they've got.
- etc

What do you think?

[basiltherat]

seldom, if ever, sober (hic !) ?

[spanglish]

Don't respond to emails.

[Glenski]

Management usually doesn't get involved directly with teachers unless/until there is a problem, so would you expect much in the way of positive remarks?

Also, due to the nature of the EFL/ESL biz, and especially for overseas work, many/most teachers have little to no teaching experience and little to no background educationally in teaching. Once again, there is cause for concern by management, and it is a lose-lose situation unless one's country steps up to the plate to change policy. Unlikely, so in this chicken-or-the-egg situation, it behooves teachers to do 2 things:

1. Be as professional as possible, because after all, they are being hired by am employer to do a job. They are not being sent overseas on a hedonistic sightseeing tour.

2. Be wary about the job situation, and look for telltale signs of poor employers or poor work situations before signing on the dotted line. If something crops up anyway, be prepared to act on it appropriately.

No, I am not in management, nor would I want to be. Just trying to see both sides here. In some cases, management consists of a foreign teacher who has been promoted after a mere 1-2 years in the trenches, so you may have someone who is almost as green and inexperienced/uneducated as the people they manage. Pressures from above may also influence their outlook and actions. As for managers who are the local nationality, they have their own way of looking at things by sheer virtue of their own culture. Teachers are unlikely to change that, but they can coexist if both sides understand where the other is coming from. I have posted this link before, but look at it. It describes the different viewpoints of managers and serious teachers in Japanese conversation school environments (eikaiwas).
http://www.eltnews.com/features/special/2004/01/the_power_of_perceptions_a_loo.html

[spiral78]

In my experience, managers very often aren't educators and their understanding and knowledge of the job can be quite limited. This creates a significant information gap between teachers and management, which can be really difficult to bridge.

So, small wonder they don't understand why we can't teach longer hours for less money.
Why they think that we make too many photocopies.
That we demand too many supplies and resources in general.

What the heck are those teachers doing in the classroom?, they wonder. 'My old Englihs teacher lektured, we student took notes, and I can speac Englihs.' Many fewer skills/qualifications/resources/supplies needed!!

[jpvanderwerf2001]

I'm in management; still not sure how that happened. I have "been in the trenches" far longer than 1-2 years, though!
Anyway, in my experience, the biggest disconnect between management and teaching staff is, unsurprisingly, money (at least in private language schools). I am often taken aback by how little the teachers in such schools know or care about the business aspect (for instance, raises might not be on the horizon if the school isn't very profitable). I'm also somewhat shocked that the higher-ups in my school (none of whom, save me, have ever taught) don't seem to realize that teachers don't know or care about the business end.
In terms of professionalism--as in any industry--teachers cover the spectrum from highly professional to abyssmal. I have found that professionalism is not reliant on qualifications. Those who have oodles of paper qualifications are as likely to be lemons as those who have fewer.

[spiral78]

[posh]

When I did a 3 month stint for Lang Sols (there are some funny posts hereabouts on them) I'll never forget the English guy in charge once stressing to me that HE was the MANAGER and I was a teacher. When I failed to satisfactorily return the expected subservience and awe, he repeated it, staring into my eyes for respect. Shortly after that he got sacked.

[artemisia]

Even when managers have been educators, some of them seem to lose touch with the realities of the classroom if they've been a long time away from it themselves.

I've sometimes experienced losing almost my entire lunch break in boring repetitive meetings, only to see the manager swan off into the staffroom to have a relaxed lunch while we're rushing off back to class. This sort of thing does not score them favours with teachers. On the odd occasion when they've absolutely had to do substitute teaching, it's been most amusing to see how wiped out they look after it!

Yeah, their musings about teachers don't much interest me.

[naturegirl321]

The problem that you'll find in some places is that the admin has no idea what they're doing. They're in the business for money. They want to keep the parents happy and keep appearances up. So the advice they give you or what they think of teachers might not really matter.

[smithrn1983]

[posh]

Ahah! This is just the sort of thing I imagined:-

http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=90891

ooooo! how exciting, a personal attack / grudge / conspiracy maker has joined the party.

I don't know who you are and couldn't care but you can see my posts and judge for your self. You are the exact type poster that I have clearly stated my position on - wherever you work.

All I can say is that I am quite sure I am not the person he is referring to - my life here is generally pretty calm so I don't now who he was with for the "ranting".

And I will re-state part of my previous opinions - the vast majority of the "spiders" and creeps and problems in ESL are not on the management side - true, the bad ones have a bigger influence in their environment but the real problems are the teachers - too many are arrogant and under prepared for these GCC jobs, old, bitter or just plain xenophobic and anti-social, drunk, careless or aggressively confrontational.

I have an idea which one the 'suitthatdidnt' is.......

eslbear