Job Discussion Forums

Miles Smiles · Joined: 07 Jun 2010 Posts: 1294 Location: Heebee Jeebee

My take: I think that it varies from one institution to another.

My first university job (and my first job in China) had two campuses, one very old one where the low-end students studied, and a new campus where the much better students studied. After my first semester on the old campus, I was transferred to the new campus and given content courses. I actually had students who were not enrolled in my class coming when they had time, doing the work and taking the tests.

Another college hired me as just another lackey. The other FTs didn't do much, and their courses didn't demand much of them. Their students didn't expect much either. However, I was assigned content courses, and the dean of the FL department and I had regular meetings. Perhaps initially, they hired me to be another warm body, but I think they knew that they got a lot more. (I'd have stayed at both previous public schools if they weren't located out in the boonies).

Now, I'm in a 3-year college, and for the second year in a row, I have to commute 4 miles to an old campus that is scheduled for demolition soon. I teach students who are in their third year who (for the most part) cannot speak English but are enrolled in my "advanced" class. The better students attend school at the campus (all taught by Chinese English teachers) near my apartment, and they're still sending me to the wasteland.

In another school, I was farmed out to private middle schools who used me in their TV advertisements. THOSE were just face jobs.

So I guess it just depends upon the school.

LongShiKong · Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 1082 Location: China

rogerwilco · Joined: 10 Jun 2010 Posts: 1549

LongShiKong · Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 1082 Location: China

Enlighten me, please!

Beyond 'black money' personal services rendered in private, I have no idea what you're talking about! And how many Chinese hate paying taxes so much that they'd avoid higher tax-bracket jobs. And, if you claim, they're secretly handed additional income, why the secrecy? As if I'm going to turn in CTs for tax evasion.

With the 12 yr ed reform lauched a few yrs back, public school teachers finally got a better salary, enough for a Chinese friend of mine to switch back from a privately-owned high school to a public one--not for salary which was still less than before but for job security. Maybe the same goes for your gf.

By the way, a shoe salesclerk once told me Wallmart paid better than her public school teaching job. Guess she was in on the conspiracy too.

Scott 1955 · Joined: 18 Jun 2011 Posts: 51

with fries?

Miles Smiles · Joined: 07 Jun 2010 Posts: 1294 Location: Heebee Jeebee

LongShiKong · Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 1082 Location: China

Opiate · Joined: 10 Aug 2011 Posts: 630 Location: Qingdao

wangdaning · Joined: 22 Jan 2008 Posts: 3154

It gets odd when you start talking about black or gray money. You are speaking about something that is completely illegal, yet happens all the time.

We see some on here compare teaching in China to working at the big M, crappy burgers all around. What you are saying when you claim a CT earns more is that they have an illegal side job. So, sticking with the comparison, someone working part-time at McDonalds and selling drugs on the side might earn more than an attorney (barrister) in our home countries. Their income is not legit and is made from corrupt and illegal practices. FTs have many opportunities to follow these paths, but it is a dangerous road.

An example given on this forum was a women CT who refused to actually teach in her normal job. Instead she coerced money from parents to do private lessons on the side. This is nothing short of extortion. Your child will fail unless you pay me. Sure, CTs pay into social security (the new law that has a thread), so when they retire they might have a secure situation. If you are claiming they earn more legally, then prove it. If you are claiming an FT cannot get the same as a CT using the illegal methods again, prove it.

SahanRiddhi · Joined: 18 Sep 2010 Posts: 267

I think the idea is that the CTs get bonuses and have better benefits along the lines of medical, retirement and housing. They also have opportunities to make money through tutoring.

Some definitions:

-Gray income. Money you make from work, usually directly related to your day job. It is under the radar and you get paid in cash, so you don't pay taxes on it. It typically is not inherently illegal, though it may have unethical questionable, exploitative or legally questionable aspects. Setting up paid tutoring sessions of the type discussed above is a good example.

-Black income. Money from outright illegal activities, usually of a white-collar-crime nature: bribery, extortion, embezzlement, etc.

LarssonCrew · Joined: 06 Jun 2009 Posts: 1308

Another example I know is of a high school math's teacher who teaches groups of soon to be taking zhong kao student's at the weekends, he has 300 students in the class, for 2 hours on a saturday, and each pays 55 rmb a class....now, that's 16500 RMB for each class...and he runs this for 30 weekends a year.

Why does he get so many? Because a network set up means his 'friends' in other nearby high schools convince their students they should go, and they receive a cut. Also the president of a new by university offers a classroom in exchange for some mao's thrown his way. The CT's pretty much suggest if they don't attend a high mark is not possible, and they have been known to be more 'spongy' with marking for those who attend.

There's no WAY a foreigner would be able to do that, they'd think you were cheating, which is it. And you'd also never convince the high school teachers to tell their children to attend a foreigner's class like this.

So this guy is making close to 500 000 RMB from these weekend classes, because he's got the connections and networks to 'lean' on students to attend what turns out [from my student's point of view] to be shoddy and boring and pointless.

SahanRiddhi · Joined: 18 Sep 2010 Posts: 267

Excellent example of gray income. I want to add a few points.

-Not every CT can do this. They have to put in the time, build the connections. Early in their careers, Chinese teachers can't usually earn like that -- and would be viewed as unwelcome upstarts if they did.

-That level of gray income is enviable not only for other teachers, but for Chinese people in general. Most would kill for such opportunities.

-Foreign teachers do have plenty of opportunity for "gray" income in the form of various part-time work and private students. It's not at the same level as the example above, but it is plentiful and would be quite enviable to most Chinese people.

-The average Chinese person can't understand the mindset of a young westerner who works 14 hours a week at a university and is content with 5,000 RMB a month. The rest of the time he plays his guitar and reads books? When he could be working all day, every day and quadrupling his income? What's wrong with him?

-It's yet another reason the Chinese have zero respect for foreign English teachers. They think money falls from trees in the west, and you were too stupid to reap the benefits. So now you're in China where, for you, money grows on trees yet again -- and you're still too daft to harvest it.

rogerwilco · Joined: 10 Jun 2010 Posts: 1549

bnej · Joined: 09 Jun 2009 Posts: 57 Location: Toronto

This is absolutely spot on. The reports of Chinese teachers making 16,000RMB per class that they run is possible, but this is really just a handful of teachers at the top middle/high schools - far far from the norm. Nowhere near enough to be representative of Chinese teachers as a group.

What the average FT can make is significantly higher than MOST Chinese people - almost any FT can easily get 100RMB/hr at a local mill, but few (very few) Chinese people can command that kind of wage.