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Landon
Joined: 26 Sep 2011
Posts: 90
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 Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 3:02 pm Post subject: CELTA Japan |
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| I am having a hard time finding CELTA offered in Japan. Are there schools that offer the CELTA programme in Japan? Is a CELTA even prized to teach English in Japan? |
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Mr_Monkey
Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 661
Location: Kyuuuuuushuuuuuuu
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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Google is your friend.
I guess the answer to your second question is both simple and complex. There's only one CELTA centre in a country of 125,000,000. For visa purposes, the CELTA is irrelevant, but if you're in the country, that's not an issue. Many schools care not a jot whether you have a CELTA or not. Indeed, they will try to train you in their "method" (pronounced [dʒəuk]) instead.
On the other hand, the CELTA opened up job opportunities for me after I did it in 2004; opportunities that I would not have had otherwise. There are eikaiwa in Japan that take teaching seriously. You just have to find them. |
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Landon
Joined: 26 Sep 2011
Posts: 90
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 1:22 am Post subject: |
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| Thanks. Yes, I guess that is the only CELTA course I can find in Japan and it has a strange drawn out schedule. Nothing full-time. So, it stands to reason that, since Japan doesnt seem to offer much of the CELTA, receiving it from another country should not hurt my chances of being hired in Japan. I just always assumed it would be best to get certified in the country where I intended on teaching. Not to say that I have completly zeroed in on Japan though, because I am still researching. But, I would still be highly qualified if I got my CELTA in an intensive program in, say, Brazil? |
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Mr_Monkey
Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 661
Location: Kyuuuuuushuuuuuuu
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 3:04 am Post subject: |
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| I wouldn't say anyone with a CELTA is "highly qualified"; it's a minimum qualification. |
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It's Scary!
Joined: 17 Apr 2011
Posts: 823
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 3:50 am Post subject: |
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Working in an Eikaiwa with a CELTA IS "highly qualified"! I've rubbed shoulders with "working holiday" visa holders who barely passed high school. New Zealand high school!  
It's a fact! |
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Mr_Monkey
Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 661
Location: Kyuuuuuushuuuuuuu
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 4:59 am Post subject: |
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No, sorry. It's not.
It doesn't matter where you work, a CELTA is an initiation into teaching. Nothing more. The fact that the vast majority of eikaiwa don't know anything only makes a CELTA holder better-placed to teach than the vast majority, and speaks volumes about the problems - structural, ethical and cultural - that bedevil Japanese ELT. |
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It's Scary!
Joined: 17 Apr 2011
Posts: 823
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:57 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| The fact that the vast majority of eikaiwa don't know anything only makes a CELTA holder better-placed to teach than the vast majority... |
With all due respect Mr. Monkey, you have, indeed, proven my thesis. That being the majority of Eikaiwa "workers" are unlicensed and non-qualified and that a CELTA-holder is relatively highly-qualified. To those who care to chime in, look around you first and consider your "colleagues". How many are there for the "good times" that Japan can afford?
The minimum qualification to teach at an Eikaiwa in Japan is a college degree, or in case you come from an economic basket case of a country that has a "working visa" agreement, a high school diploma.
It's the reality on the ground! |
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rxk22
Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr_Monkey wrote: |
On the other hand, the CELTA opened up job opportunities for me after I did it in 2004; opportunities that I would not have had otherwise. There are eikaiwa in Japan that take teaching seriously. You just have to find them. |
OOC what are those eikaiwas? I know they exist, I mean they must. But most are just a waste a time from what I have seen. Be weird to work at a eikaiwa that actually cared about teacher BRRRRR  |
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rxk22
Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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| It's Scary! wrote: |
| Quote: |
| The fact that the vast majority of eikaiwa don't know anything only makes a CELTA holder better-placed to teach than the vast majority... |
With all due respect Mr. Monkey, you have, indeed, proven my thesis. That being the majority of Eikaiwa "workers" are unlicensed and non-qualified and that a CELTA-holder is relatively highly-qualified. To those who care to chime in, look around you first and consider your "colleagues". How many are there for the "good times" that Japan can afford?
The minimum qualification to teach at an Eikaiwa in Japan is a college degree, or in case you come from an economic basket case of a country that has a "working visa" agreement, a high school diploma.
It's the reality on the ground! |
Indeed, at my last eikaiwa, though we had some decent teachers, a lot were pretty iffy as people go. Had a pedophile, a drunk, who the JT had to drag back to the school after the lunch break, and other such gems.
i think the ELT industry is split, not in half, but in two strata, one where people take teaching seriously, and the other who don't give a poop, or have some seriously terrible English. |
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Mr_Monkey
Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 661
Location: Kyuuuuuushuuuuuuu
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| rxk22 wrote: |
Indeed, at my last eikaiwa, though we had some decent teachers, a lot were pretty iffy as people go. Had a pedophile, a drunk, who the JT had to drag back to the school after the lunch break, and other such gems.
i think the ELT industry is split, not in half, but in two strata, one where people take teaching seriously, and the other who don't give a poop, or have some seriously terrible English. |
Well, the research I did on the ELT industry in Japan for my MSc thesis showed me that there are definitely more than two strata here - for example, you get the eikaiwa that will sponsor a visa for, frankly, the meat on the seat; they really don't care about the teacher. These organisations bear more resemblance to a temp agency and the Japanese dispatch companies than anything else. The native speaking teacher is there to fulfil a customer expectation - if they can use non-NESTs, they will - they're usually a lot cheaper. The treatment of foreign teachers in these organisations bears a striking resemblance to the way Japanese women are often treated in the workplace - to provide flexibility in the workforce, with little hope for promotion or a reasonable contract and conditions of employment. Their business model is predicated on volume. High student turnover is accounted for, hence expensive advertising. Most of these companies are gone now, but some smaller operations remain - GABA, for example, although they focus on 1-to-1 lessons.
There are also thousands of small eikaiwa across the country. They tend to avoid sponsoring visas if they can, as it's just an administrative headache for them. They also tend to avoid neophyte teachers and hire experienced part-timers - the per-hour wage is higher, but they save a lot of money on national insurance payments.
Add to the mix the eikaiwa - often foreign-owned and based in a residence - that are 1-man operations trading purely on word-of mouth and occasional ads in local free magazines.
Then you have eikaiwa that base themselves on a business model more closely resembling that of a college - high tuition fees, but they are willing to offer guarantees on progress. In many ways, they are similar to the British Council school in Tokyo (formerly in Osaka and Fukuoka too): insistence on qualifications and experience in their teachers, clear curricula and a focus on student involvement not just in the social aspects of the school, but in their own learning process too.
Then you have the NPOs and the tax-evaders, the scroungers, the private universities and the international schools (both in-name-only and true but for profit)
With regards to eikaiwa that care, I would suggest that places like Language Resources in Kobe are a good place to start (more detail is dependent on your location) - the CELTA course is internally and externally assessed and the program is moderated by Cambridge ESOL. If the school doesn't meet Cambridge's standards, they lose the right to offer the course. Every course is externally moderated in that the assessments performed by the tutors are subject to random validation and of the assessed teaching practice on every course, at least one of the teaching practice assessments is performed by an external moderator directly employed by Cambridge ESOL. Similarly, the Trinity Cert. TESOL is externally moderated, although the external assessor is a little more involved in the assessment process than in Cambridge's model.
In order to offer a CELTA, the tutors on the course need to be appropriately experienced and qualified. They also need to undertake training and reflective work which, again, is externally moderated by Cambridge ESOL.
It can't guarantee total adherence to standards (nothing can), but it does ensure that standards are broadly maintained. Having the CELTA centre status pretty much guarantees that the teaching and learning that takes place there will be of a reasonable quality, certainly superior to most other eikaiwa.
| It's Scary! wrote: |
| With all due respect Mr. Monkey, you have, indeed, proven my thesis. That being the majority of Eikaiwa "workers" are unlicensed and non-qualified and that a CELTA-holder is relatively highly-qualified. |
Well, you didn't say that, instead going for something lacking a clear statement of the thesis. Soundbites are usually counter-productive.
Anyway, the point I was making is that "relatively" highly qualified is essentially meaningless when the qualification is minimal. 4 weeks, �1,000. This is why I said it's an initiation into TEFL. Those kind of qualifications don't swing you very far in the UK, for example, where you can expect to earn a whole �10/hour for the trouble.
Basically, I'm saying that at that level of competence, it's not a relative proposition; it's binary. You're either qualified or you're not.
| Quote: |
| To those who care to chime in, look around you first and consider your "colleagues". How many are there for the "good times" that Japan can afford? |
Irrelevant if you appreciate my position. They're not teachers. I suspect we agree.
| Quote: |
| The minimum qualification to teach at an Eikaiwa in Japan is a college degree, or in case you come from an economic basket case of a country that has a "working visa" agreement, a high school diploma. |
Again, I disagree - that's not a qualification to teach, it's the minimum level of qualification to obtain a work visa, and I believe it's consistent across all varieties of work visa, not just the SIH and Instructor visas. It's gate-keeping; nothing else. |
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Mr_Monkey
Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 661
Location: Kyuuuuuushuuuuuuu
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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For the OP:
It just occurred to me that you might be able to take the CELTA online, with your teaching practice in Kobe at a suitable time, rather than decamping to foreign climes and losing your job:
http://www.cambridgeesol.org/exams/celta-online/index.html |
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It's Scary!
Joined: 17 Apr 2011
Posts: 823
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr_Monkey wrote: |
| It's Scary! wrote: |
With all due respect Mr. Monkey, you have, indeed, proven my thesis. That being the majority of Eikaiwa "workers" are unlicensed and non-qualified and that a CELTA-holder is relatively highly-qualified.
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Well, you didn't say that, instead going for something lacking a clear statement of the thesis. Soundbites are usually counter-productive.
| Quote: |
| To start, well-thought-out post, Mr. Monkey. As to lacking a clear statement, I considered the riff-raff that populates the Eikaiwa industry to be an unspoken known. |
Anyway, the point I was making is that "relatively" highly qualified is essentially meaningless when the qualification is minimal. 4 weeks, �1,000. This is why I said it's an initiation into TEFL. Those kind of qualifications don't swing you very far in the UK, for example, where you can expect to earn a whole �10/hour for the trouble.
Basically, I'm saying that at that level of competence, it's not a relative proposition; it's binary. You're either qualified or you're not.
| Quote: |
| To those who care to chime in, look around you first and consider your "colleagues". How many are there for the "good times" that Japan can afford? |
Irrelevant if you appreciate my position. They're not teachers. I suspect we agree.
| Quote: |
The minimum qualification to teach at an Eikaiwa in Japan is a college degree, or in case you come from an economic basket case of a country that has a "working visa" agreement, a high school diploma.
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Again, I disagree - that's not a qualification to teach, it's the minimum level of qualification to obtain a work visa, and I believe it's consistent across all varieties of work visa, not just the SIH and Instructor visas. It's gate-keeping; nothing else.
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| Well, unless the regulations have changed, as they do, I worked with less-than-idiot-savants at NOVA when I was working on my Temple degree who reveled in the fact that the way they go into Japan was thru their WHV and NOVA had no qualms in putting them into the cubicle next to mine with their bizarre speech. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr_Monkey wrote: |
| Well, the research I did on the ELT industry in Japan for my MSc thesis |
I would like to see it, if possible. What was the main premise?
| Quote: |
| The native speaking teacher is there to fulfil a customer expectation - if they can use non-NESTs, they will - they're usually a lot cheaper. |
Shouldn't matter whether they are NEST or nonNEST as far as salary goes. Equivalent job, equivalent pay.
| Quote: |
| The treatment of foreign teachers in these organisations bears a striking resemblance to the way Japanese women are often treated in the workplace - to provide flexibility in the workforce, with little hope for promotion or a reasonable contract and conditions of employment. |
I don't particularly agree with this analogy. At least in the regular work force for Japanese, there is a route that employees can take to move up. Yes, there is a glass ceiling but that's more social than anything. The jobs do exist beyond entry level. However in terms of eikaiwa, there just isn't much if any upward mobility. Instructor and maybe, maybe manager, nothing more.
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| Their business model is predicated on volume. High student turnover is accounted for, hence expensive advertising. Most of these companies are gone now, but some smaller operations remain - GABA, for example, although they focus on 1-to-1 lessons. |
GABA is not that small.
| Quote: |
| There are also thousands of small eikaiwa across the country. They tend to avoid sponsoring visas if they can, as it's just an administrative headache for them. |
I would really like to see your data on this. Sponsoring a visa takes little administrative effort, and it is free. I would also like to know what percentage you found that are unwilling to sponsor, as well as how many you surveyed. This is a rather sweeping statement that needs backing up.
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| They also tend to avoid neophyte teachers and hire experienced part-timers - the per-hour wage is higher, |
Data, again, please.
| Quote: |
| Add to the mix the eikaiwa - often foreign-owned and based in a residence - that are 1-man operations |
What does "often" mean? More data needed here. With the population in Japan having 2% foreigners, and most of them Koreans and Chinese, just how many foreigners have these 1-man operations anyway?
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| Then you have eikaiwa that base themselves on a business model more closely resembling that of a college - high tuition fees, but they are willing to offer guarantees on progress. |
And, in your research did you find that they actually came through with such guarantees? Did the students actually improve, or did they merely "progress" through the levels as long as they were able/willing to pay? Big difference.
| Quote: |
| In many ways, they are similar to the British Council school in Tokyo (formerly in Osaka and Fukuoka too): insistence on qualifications and experience in their teachers, clear curricula and a focus on student involvement not just in the social aspects of the school, but in their own learning process too. |
Darned few, I would expect, would fall into that category.
| Quote: |
| Basically, I'm saying that at that level of competence, it's not a relative proposition; it's binary. You're either qualified or you're not. |
If all one is counting is having a CELTA or not, yes, it's an all or nothing issue. But, that's not the only thing at play in hiring. Most entry level teachers in Japan have little to no experience in teaching and little to no related academic background. Most employers wouldn't know a CELTA cert from a roll of toilet paper, nor do they care. In the last 4-5 years or so, things have changed a bit in the industry, mostly going downhill in many ways. With the fall of NOVA and GEOS and other eikaiwas, there is a glut of teachers and wannabes here (or knocking on the door). The key question for newbies should be, "What will I need to get into most eikaiwas today, despite the glut?" So, we are left with the question of how many eikaiwas actually care enough to look for even minimal certs such as CELTA vs. those employers who still go by the old standards (degree in hand, personality and chemistry). Even though I'm not a newbie, I would be interested in knowing this.
| Mr_Monkey wrote: |
]
| Quote: |
| The minimum qualification to teach at an Eikaiwa in Japan is a college degree, or in case you come from an economic basket case of a country that has a "working visa" agreement, a high school diploma. |
Again, I disagree - that's not a qualification to teach, it's the minimum level of qualification to obtain a work visa, and I believe it's consistent across all varieties of work visa, not just the SIH and Instructor visas. It's gate-keeping; nothing else. |
Work visas require a bachelor's degree or equivalent, or you can also get them if you have 3 or more years of related work experience and no degree.
People can also teach with no degree just by virtue of having a spouse visa, dependent visa, student visa, or working holiday visa. Most employers seem to want a degree, but that is just because they go the route of work visas, and they are willing to take degreeless people as long as they satisfy other visa categories like I've described. And, there are also employers who are unwilling to deal with the visa process, so they openly advertise that people must already have a "valid visa" (any of those mentioned above) before applying. |
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yamanote senbei
Joined: 28 Jun 2005
Posts: 435
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| Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 4:41 pm Post subject: Re: CELTA Japan |
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| Landon wrote: |
| Is a CELTA even prized to teach English in Japan? |
No. |
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Rooster_2006
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 984
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| Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr_Monkey wrote: |
| I wouldn't say anyone with a CELTA is "highly qualified"; it's a minimum qualification. |
Agreed.
When I did my CELTA, 94% of people who entered the program passed. It is simply a matter of showing up for class for ONE MONTH, doing the assignments reasonably well, and trying reasonably hard with the lessons. And did I mention it's ONLY ONE MONTH?
Seriously, how many other careers besides EFL only consist of one month of formal training?
I mean, don't get me wrong -- I love having my CELTA be looked upon as the "mark of a serious teacher," but let's be honest here, an 18-year-old can get that qualification over a summer vacation (and in fact, one of the people in my CELTA class was an 18-year-old non-native Korean guy). In my case, I earned it when I was only 20 years old.
What impresses me?
An 'A' or a 'B' in CELTA. Any schmuck can put his nose to the grindstone for a month and get a "PASS." An 'A' or a 'B' takes real teaching competence. Especially an 'A.' Only a single-digit percentage of CELTA candidates acquire an 'A.'
Finally, CELTA only qualifies the bearer to teach ADULTS. And good luck on having an adults-only teaching gig for your first gig, with or without CELTA.
Retrospectively, I should have done CELTYL instead, since the vast majority of my students for the last 2 ~ 3 years have been kids, and I really wish I had had formal training in how to teach them besides the crappy HITT training I received through Hess.
And finally, on the topic of CELTA, I want to add one more thing:
CELTA's approach is to use L2-only and never L1 in the classroom. CELTA basically forbids all use of the L1 in the classroom. This approach may be the best for immigrants learning English in the UK, but in the context of homogeneous East Asian classrooms, I highly disagree with this form of teaching methodology, and find that using some Japanese in the classroom (such as a poster I made explaining the past tense and the present continuous) is essential, especially on grammar. I have studied Korean, Japanese, and Chinese all in a university environment, and never have any of my Korean/Japanese/Chinese teachers expected me to learn in all L2 from the very beginning, and I think it's unreasonable for English learners to be expected to do this, either. This is a major beef I have with CELTA.
I have tried time and again trying to show (not tell) my students about the past tense using only English. It's darn near impossible. I use time lines, act it out, etc. and they just don't get it. You know what works for teaching students the past tense? SHOWING THEM THE PAST TENSE IN JAPANESE SIDE-BY-SIDE WITH THE ENGLISH PAST TENSE.
But CELTA forbids that. Even when trying to explain an abstract concept like the past tense, the present continuous, or a non-tangible word like "government" or "ethics," you're expected to use 100% English. And personally, I just DON'T agree with that style of teaching.
My bosses, although tending to frown upon my use of a little bit of L2 in the beginning, usually come around when they witness firsthand the impossibility of teaching abstract concepts (like "like" versus "want") to students in all L2.
This is another way in which I cannot say I approve of CELTA's curriculum, and do not think its one-size-fits-all system is the best for all learners.
In conclusion, as a CELTA-certified teacher myself, I'm not trying to CELTA-bash here, but I don't think that CELTA is the mark of a highly-qualified teacher. It is merely an introduction to EFL/ESL, nothing more, and in my opinion, the L2-only methodology it uses is very debatable, especially in homogeneous Far Eastern classrooms in which all the learners have the same L1. CELTA may be well-suited to a heterogeneous group of immigrants in the UK, but does not seem to be very appropriate to homogeneous classrooms of Japanese native speakers in Japan who could really benefit from some L2 in the classroom. |
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