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Pinker's latest
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fluffyhamster



Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again

PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 4:04 pm    Post subject: Pinker's latest Reply with quote

Steven Pinker's got a new book out (about the decline of violence), the Guardian article on which includes an interview with the author:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2011/oct/15/steven-pinker-better-angels-violence-interview
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear fluffyhamster,

I read a review of it - sounds very interesting. I don't always agree with Pinker, but I was pleasantly surprised to see (based on the review) that we shared very similar ideas about this topic.

Regards,
John
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great! Thanks for sharing this Fluffy.

Here a TED video on the same topic from a while back:

http://www.ted.com/talks/steven_pinker_on_the_myth_of_violence.html
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Captain_Fil



Joined: 06 Jan 2011
Posts: 604
Location: California - the land of fruits and nuts

PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting interview.

But the man is overly optimistic.

Sad
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Captain_Fil,

Ah, you've read the book, I see. Would you counter his arguments for us, then?

Regards,
John
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Captain_Fil



Joined: 06 Jan 2011
Posts: 604
Location: California - the land of fruits and nuts

PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear John,

Ahhh, but I know something of human nature. It does not really change.

All of this has happened before and all this will happen again.

Regards,

CF
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Captian_Fil,

Ah, but having been around for a while, I like to think that I, too, know something about human nature.

People don't change - how many times have you heard that? And it's quite true, I believe.

People don't change - human nature doesn't change.

But people's BEHAVIOR can (and does) change, and so can (and has) the behavior of the human race.

Hope you agree - otherwise, you're saying no one can ever improve.

Also hope you're planning to read the book - I am.

Regards,
John
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Sashadroogie



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise

PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All we need is a proper Great Leader to help us engineer humanity's souls. Banish greed and hunger etc.
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Sasha,

Actually humanity's had a few such leaders: Zarathustra, the Buddha, Confucius, Muhammad, Socrates, Plato and the Stoics, the Jewish prophets, Jesus Christ, etc.

Problem is not enough followers who have truly practiced what those leaders
advocated.

Regards,
John
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Captain_Fil



Joined: 06 Jan 2011
Posts: 604
Location: California - the land of fruits and nuts

PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnslat wrote:
Dear Captian_Fil,

Ah, but having been around for a while, I like to think that I, too, know something about human nature.

People don't change - how many times have you heard that? And it's quite true, I believe.

People don't change - human nature doesn't change.

But people's BEHAVIOR can (and does) change, and so can (and has) the behavior of the human race.

Hope you agree - otherwise, you're saying no one can ever improve.

Also hope you're planning to read the book - I am.

Regards,
John


Dear John,

Individuals can improve.

But humanity as a whole?

Regards,

CF
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Captain_Fil,

Hmm, just what do you think humanity is made up of: zucchinis? Very Happy

Regards,
John
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Captain_Fil



Joined: 06 Jan 2011
Posts: 604
Location: California - the land of fruits and nuts

PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear John,

No. Not zucchinis.

Humanity is made up of: wienies! Laughing

Regards,

CF
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Captain_Fil,

SInce I think it's unlikely that you've had the chance to make evaluations of all the humans on the globe, I can only hope that you're not indulging in projection:

Projection, also called projective identification, involves the tendency to see your own unacceptable attributes in other people.

As part of humanity, surely you don't consider yourself to be a wienie, do you?

Regards,
John
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Captain_Fil



Joined: 06 Jan 2011
Posts: 604
Location: California - the land of fruits and nuts

PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear John,

No one is perfect. We've all been wienies.

I've been a wienie. You've been a wienie. Everyone has been a wienie.

(But I suspect that I've been a bigger wienie than you. Wink )

Regards,

CF
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johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Captain_Fil,

I'm not quite sure what your definition of "wienie" is, but I probably have been one on occasion.

However, I'm sure we've both learned from our excursions into wienieness and are both better human beings today Very Happy

Regards,
John
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