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Halcyon Chimera
Joined: 22 May 2009 Posts: 36
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Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:26 pm Post subject: Looking for Int'l or College level jobs in East Asia |
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Hello all! I hope you are doing well. I was active in these forums a year and a half ago, but I began teaching ELA in a secondary school setting and did not go through with my ambitions of teaching ESL. I was told to get about two years of experience and then consider international schools. Well, this year will be my second year, and I am still teaching ELA to 7th grade students in a rural community in Alabama. I feel that the ESL job market has changed since I was first introduced to it in 2009 (albeit, not much), so I still would love advice on my best options. My information:
I am a 26 year old white male certified and "highly qualified" ELA teacher with a bachelor's and master's in ELA secondary education. I have a class A teaching certificate with what will be two years of teaching experience at the secondary level (with additional responsibilities, of course). I am currently working toward my second master's in instructional technology.
I can deduce that my best option is probably an international school. Am I correct in this? I've scoured and searched the forums for information on international schools, and I've been enlightened some. I know that University gigs MIGHT be an option, but due to my inexperience with teaching at a postsecondary institution, I'm afraid it may not be a truly viable option. What do you guys think? And between a Uni. gig and an int'l gig, what would you consider to be the better option in YOUR opinion? Yes, I know that's subjective, but I still would like to know.
My wants/needs: I will have probably around $500-600/month student loan repayments, but I'm thinking if I can continue my instructional technology master's, I can defer that loan. I look to live a moderate lifestyle with some occasion of traveling but nothing extraneous. As long as I can eat a couple of times per day and have the basics like power, water, internet, etc., then I'm good.
So, basically, here are my questions: Int'l school or University job? What are the pros/cons of each? Which would I be best suited for based on my qualifications?
I will appreciate any positive feedback. Forgive me if this information is abundant elsewhere in this forum yet I have missed it. |
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Glenski

Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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You've made a similar post in the Newbie forum. There you said you wanted a uni job in China or Korea, not anywhere in East Asia. Is that still true? |
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Halcyon Chimera
Joined: 22 May 2009 Posts: 36
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Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 12:11 am Post subject: |
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Glenski wrote: |
You've made a similar post in the Newbie forum. There you said you wanted a uni job in China or Korea, not anywhere in East Asia. Is that still true? |
I was told to post in a more country-specific forum to increase the odds of replies. I've pretty much decided on a Uni. or Int'l job anywhere in East Asia to include Japan, South Korea, China, Thailand, Vietnam, and so on. I've been hitting the recruit agencies, and I've come to find some good recruiting agencies, but no real contact has been made yet (well, I've contacted them with no reply).
Also, I am not stuck on positions with int'l schools or Uni's; I just always hear that people with similar qualifications as mine generally lean toward those positions. Basically, I don't want to teach at a hagwon as an entry-level teacher making barely 2.0M KRW while possessing teaching experience, a class A teaching certification, and a master's in education. I'm not the MOST qualified, by any means, but I don't want to be low-balled in terms of employment. (Can I be selective in this day and age with the economy and all? No, but I have to maintain SOME standards) |
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Glenski

Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:40 am Post subject: |
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Ok, but your Newbie forum post suggests that you weren't interested in Japan for uni jobs. Take my advice there if you really are. Best of luck. |
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Asurai
Joined: 22 Oct 2011 Posts: 11
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Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 2:16 am Post subject: |
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as this will be you 2nd year teaching, I would definitely try to get an university gig or international school that pay well.
JET and korean hagwon are a waste of time for a certified teacher with experiences as they dont pay anywhere what you could get at an int school and/or the hours are much longer than University gig.
I would cross Japan off the list of potential place if I were you as the vast majority of school don't even pay 300k/month(sadly most are often 250k int school aside) even with experiences and a Master.Also, Japanese Universities increasingly require a PHD and specially publications as the above poster mentioned. |
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natsume
Joined: 24 Apr 2006 Posts: 409 Location: Chongqing, China
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Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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Asurai wrote: |
JET and korean hagwon are a waste of time for a certified teacher with experiences as they dont pay anywhere what you could get at an int school and/or the hours are much longer than University gig.
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JET and hagwons are NOT equivalent, and, at least in my prefecture, certified teachers (in any/many subjects) are becoming more and more prevalent (in the JET program)...do you actually know what you are talking about here, regarding hours, pay, and benefits? From next year, the payscale for JETs will be going up for recontracting people (sorry I missed out on that). |
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Glenski

Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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It's true that JET ALTs don't get paid what a licensed teacher does in an international school, but look at the other things.
JET shows people what life can be like in a public school system. International schools are a bit different, especially since all the courses (except Japanese) are taught in English. While an ALT will not experience everything that a FT teacher would in a public school, there is still a lot to learn from the job, co-worker (JTE) and students. I wouldn't brush it aside as "waste of time" for that reason. |
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Asurai
Joined: 22 Oct 2011 Posts: 11
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Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:59 am Post subject: |
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natsume wrote: |
Asurai wrote: |
JET and korean hagwon are a waste of time for a certified teacher with experiences as they dont pay anywhere what you could get at an int school and/or the hours are much longer than University gig.
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JET and hagwons are NOT equivalent, and, at least in my prefecture, certified teachers (in any/many subjects) are becoming more and more prevalent (in the JET program)...do you actually know what you are talking about here, regarding hours, pay, and benefits? From next year, the payscale for JETs will be going up for recontracting people (sorry I missed out on that). |
I did not meant to say that both are the same, only that both do not offer the kind of salary that int schools pay.Jet salary is going down for 1 years, unchanged for 2nd year while 3rd year and on are getting an increase of 300,000 over the previous amount(3.6M per year).I dont know about you but getting these amount in a country like Japan does not compare to the "good" int schools salary package.
The main point is whether you want to continue teach ESL(and probably get lower salary/benefit) or teach a subject(or general for elementary) at a school where people actually have some English knowledge. |
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natsume
Joined: 24 Apr 2006 Posts: 409 Location: Chongqing, China
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Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:55 am Post subject: |
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I agree, for the most part. Thanks for the clarification. And yes, now I haved learned about the (overall) dip in the JET salary.
It was the "waste of time" part that irked me. Also, I am guessing that some of the influx of more qualified, experienced taechers in the JET program are economic refugees. What's a bigger waste of time, unemployment in your home country or JET. |
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Asurai
Joined: 22 Oct 2011 Posts: 11
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Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:50 am Post subject: |
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natsume wrote: |
I agree, for the most part. Thanks for the clarification. And yes, now I haved learned about the (overall) dip in the JET salary.
It was the "waste of time" part that irked me. Also, I am guessing that some of the influx of more qualified, experienced taechers in the JET program are economic refugees. What's a bigger waste of time, unemployment in your home country or JET. |
"waste of time" was referring to accredited teacher with experience like the OP.Sadly a lot of people with teaching credential apply JET(and get in) or to low-pay job in other countries because they do not know about international schools(in a way that makes it easier for rest of the us to get these jobs). |
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natsume
Joined: 24 Apr 2006 Posts: 409 Location: Chongqing, China
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Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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Again, I disagree with your characterization. Credentialed teachers, and even some with MATESOLs, apply to JET for a number of reasons beyond salary, not "sadly" because they don't know where else to go. It has a (potential) world of benefits that might outshine the negatives of a lower salary, and, for many, it is a transitional stepping stone towards careers in many fields. See Glenski's quote above. Sorry, I don't think you know what you are talking about.
That said, my opinion may be moot. JET is changing, as for better or worse, we have yet to see, but the salary reduction is not a good sign.
Still, in my experience, "waste of time", "sadly", JET=hogwan, is just bizarre, out-of-touch language to use. |
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Glenski

Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 11:23 am Post subject: |
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Asurai wrote: |
"waste of time" was referring to accredited teacher with experience like the OP.Sadly a lot of people with teaching credential apply JET(and get in) or to low-pay job in other countries because they do not know about international schools(in a way that makes it easier for rest of the us to get these jobs). |
What is so sad about a credentialed experienced foreign teacher who is willing to step down to an ALT position for the sake of earning experience in a real live Japanese public school? And, who is to say they are not looking at international schools, too? Heck, they may not even know about them, but the fact is, they are run differently from Japanese schools, so the value in the experience is different. |
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Asurai
Joined: 22 Oct 2011 Posts: 11
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Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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There is nothing sad about accredited teacher looking for the "Japanese" experience offered by JET or the public system.I was only referring to people underselling themselves and accepting lower and lower pay (looking at you 180k Yen 40 hours job in Japan) which makes no financial sense.
Lot of people are willing to sacrifice a lot in order to experience countries such as: Japan,Korea, China,Thailand and I see nothing wrong on this level.However, the I can't understand why people with better certification than the average joe would not try to get the "better" jobs rather than undersell themselves and accept anything that come their way.
The OP asked for the best option and the only thing he mentioned was regarding money therefore its a safe bet to say that public/hagwon/JET would not make financial sense because Int Schools pay more therefore making them the best option.
Again, I'm not against qualified people taking lesser job for their own gain;what im saying is that people (specially certified teacher) should take a better look at the wider range of possibilities they have.
-Yes my Undergraduate degree was in Finance if you are wondering |
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