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Inflames
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 486
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 Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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When I was an ALT, I told them they absolutely needed to be there. They didn't need to participate (I didn't really encourage the ES teachers to "teach" but helping me model something or participate in the lesson itself [such as doing activities] certainly helped) but they needed to be there (I didn't mind if they sat at their desk and planned lessons).
I explained it rather simply - I asked them what would happen if there was an accident. I was told that the student should go to the 保健室, to which I pointed out that they would ask the student what happened and that it would come out that I was the only one there, not them (they are supposed to be there) and it would look bad on both of us. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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| rxk22 wrote: |
| I understand that, but in the end do you see the ALT being held liable? |
Who wants to take that risk? Even if the liability is for the BOE or dispatch company, I wouldn't want to be the one caught in the middle. Depending on one's circumstances, it is conceivable that blame would be pointed at the foreigner.
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| They could just claim that they didn't know. Which could be true in many cases. |
The way I see it, an aggrieved parent would not care. They would only be concerned for the safety of their children.
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| While the JT being trained and licensed to teach in Japan will prolly be held responsible. |
Fine. As In Flames pointed out, make sure they realize that.
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| What can we do, chase down the JT when they go take a coffee break? |
Do what In Flames did/does. If that accomplishes nothing, then at the very least, cover your liable butt by contacting the BOE or dispatch company with a written notice.
Don't want to rock the boat? Be aware of the consequences when an earthquake hits, or typhoon, or some stalker crashes into the room wielding a knife, or a child has a seizure, etc. |
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rxk22
Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
| rxk22 wrote: |
| I understand that, but in the end do you see the ALT being held liable? |
Who wants to take that risk? Even if the liability is for the BOE or dispatch company, I wouldn't want to be the one caught in the middle. Depending on one's circumstances, it is conceivable that blame would be pointed at the foreigner.
| Quote: |
| They could just claim that they didn't know. Which could be true in many cases. |
The way I see it, an aggrieved parent would not care. They would only be concerned for the safety of their children.
| Quote: |
| While the JT being trained and licensed to teach in Japan will prolly be held responsible. |
Fine. As In Flames pointed out, make sure they realize that.
| Quote: |
| What can we do, chase down the JT when they go take a coffee break? |
Do what In Flames did/does. If that accomplishes nothing, then at the very least, cover your liable butt by contacting the BOE or dispatch company with a written notice.
Don't want to rock the boat? Be aware of the consequences when an earthquake hits, or typhoon, or some stalker crashes into the room wielding a knife, or a child has a seizure, etc. |
I totally understand your point. I guess the bigger problem for most, is being able to communicate. I don't see the JTs until I get to their class. After that i don't see them again. For most ALTs, I bet even if they did see the JT, I don't think they could convey the fact that they aren't allowed to be left alone in a class.
I am willing to bet that I will not be held responsible if something bad happens. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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| rxk22 wrote: |
| I totally understand your point. I guess the bigger problem for most, is being able to communicate. I don't see the JTs until I get to their class. After that i don't see them again. For most ALTs, I bet even if they did see the JT, I don't think they could convey the fact that they aren't allowed to be left alone in a class. |
Bigger or not, I tend to agree, although it is only with instinct to back up my feelings, not with any direct knowledge of most ALTs' language ability.
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| I am willing to bet that I will not be held responsible if something bad happens. |
But would you be willing to deal with the situation if it actually arose? Heck, even if the blame was directed at your employer and not you directly, who can say what your employer would do (e.g., not renew your contract)? The way I see things, if someone pointed a finger of blame, the ALT would still be caught in the crossfire, and I would imagine that to be a very uncomfortable position no matter who is doing the shooting. |
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rxk22
Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:27 am Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
| rxk22 wrote: |
| I totally understand your point. I guess the bigger problem for most, is being able to communicate. I don't see the JTs until I get to their class. After that i don't see them again. For most ALTs, I bet even if they did see the JT, I don't think they could convey the fact that they aren't allowed to be left alone in a class. |
Bigger or not, I tend to agree, although it is only with instinct to back up my feelings, not with any direct knowledge of most ALTs' language ability.
| Quote: |
| I am willing to bet that I will not be held responsible if something bad happens. |
But would you be willing to deal with the situation if it actually arose? Heck, even if the blame was directed at your employer and not you directly, who can say what your employer would do (e.g., not renew your contract)? The way I see things, if someone pointed a finger of blame, the ALT would still be caught in the crossfire, and I would imagine that to be a very uncomfortable position no matter who is doing the shooting. |
But the problem is, a lot of ALTs can't speak Japanese. So they can't tell the JT 'hey you can't just roll out during class like that'. If they complain, well then they can worry about getting cold shouldered, and not being asked to come back to that school the following year.
I agree with you, but in a lot of ways for most of us, it just doesn't pay off to complain/confront, as it makes the situation worse in other ways. |
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seklarwia
Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:27 am Post subject: |
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| rxk22 wrote: |
| Glenski wrote: |
| But would you be willing to deal with the situation if it actually arose? Heck, even if the blame was directed at your employer and not you directly, who can say what your employer would do (e.g., not renew your contract)? The way I see things, if someone pointed a finger of blame, the ALT would still be caught in the crossfire, and I would imagine that to be a very uncomfortable position no matter who is doing the shooting. |
But the problem is, a lot of ALTs can't speak Japanese. So they can't tell the JT 'hey you can't just roll out during class like that'. If they complain, well then they can worry about getting cold shouldered, and not being asked to come back to that school the following year.
I agree with you, but in a lot of ways for most of us, it just doesn't pay off to complain/confront, as it makes the situation worse in other ways. |
And getting the higher ups involved (union, BOE or labour board) can cause a whole lot worse than cold shoulders.
In my last BOE, a single ALT (not from my company) trying to get better work conditions freaked out the BOE because he got a whole lot more support than was expected. But the timing just happened to be really bad because it all kicked off at the end of Jan... BOE "fixed" the problem by deciding to not renew any of dispatch contracts it currently had; a heap of ALTs from four companies got screwed overnight either because their employers got ousted or their company pulled out of bidding because they didn't like how things were going down.
I agree with rxk22; in many cases it simply doesn't pay off to rock the boat. Of course, if an ALT is unable to cope with the class alone or doesn't feel comfortable doing so then they should speak up if they are prepared for the fact that things may get worse or they may end up not getting their contract renewed the following year. But if an ALT is happy with their placement then it wouldn't make sense for them to kick up a fuss merely for the sake of principles knowing what is likely to happen. |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:34 am Post subject: |
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| rxk22 wrote: |
| But the problem is, a lot of ALTs can't speak Japanese. So they can't tell the JT 'hey you can't just roll out during class like that'. If they complain, well then they can worry about getting cold shouldered, and not being asked to come back to that school the following year. |
I know they probably can't speak well enough. The point is they shouldn't be the ones to tell a senior person (the JTE). Their employer should. That means the ALT should notify the BOE or dispatch company, and let them take care of it. [I wrote that on Nov. 2, 12:40, in case you missed it.]
Whether the BOE or dispatch agency chooses to tell the school/JTE that the ALT has complained, or that it is simply not smart policy to leave the ALT alone, you can never tell.
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| I agree with you, but in a lot of ways for most of us, it just doesn't pay off to complain/confront, as it makes the situation worse in other ways. |
Ok, let's get pragmatic about it. The whole EFL industry is unregulated, so people with zero or little Japanese language fluency can be hired for their first teaching job and placed in a situation where they are surrounded by Japanese speakers, perhaps even with terribly weak English. I don't see this sort of thing changing, so how about thinking a little differently? Point the blame not at the schools or employers or system for hiring people who can't interact linguistically with J staff, but instead at the foreign teachers. That is, if they don't like the situation of lingual inequality, why don't they instead be the ones to learn the language in the country where they have chosen to work?
I came here with weak J skills, but at least I took night classes for a year in the U.S. before setting foot in a classroom in Japan. If the mountain won't move for Mohammed (and it's unlikely that it will), then Mohammed will have to consider learning the local language. It only makes sense to do so anyway.
The bigger problem comes when you consider that most ELT teachers and ALTs are here only for a short time, but where does the buck stop? Someone needs to take accountability, and I think it's only fair for foreign teachers to make the effort, especially if they know they are going to be in a situation like a mainstream school, where it is usually needed.
Your opinions may differ, but that's my viewpoint. |
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rich45
Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 127
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 3:35 am Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
Whether the BOE or dispatch agency chooses to tell the school/JTE that the ALT has complained, or that it is simply not smart policy to leave the ALT alone, you can never tell.
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The point is that, and the discussion seems to be going around in circles, ALTs don't want to annoy/bother/create trouble for their dispatch boss.
Even if said boss doesn't feel the need to tell the JTE, the complaint has been made and could be a factor when he or she is deciding whether to renew your contract, or get a fresh new ALT come March.
So it is much better to keep your head down, do what you are told, and forget about it after about 4pm. |
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Vince
Joined: 05 May 2003
Posts: 559
Location: U.S.
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| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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When I started as an eikaiwa teacher, I worked from about 1:00 to 9:00. That schedule left me with an hour or so in the morning for housework and studying Japanese, and a couple of hours to do whatever I needed to do outside of home (gym, shopping, library, etc). I occasionally went out with my coworkers after work.
A few years into my time in Japan, I was teaching year-long courses at a vocational college, teaching business EFL at corporations for another college, and teaching a couple of days a week at a language school. I was making decent money and had plenty of free time between jobs. The only problem was that these were all part-time jobs. I did get an offer for a full-time curriculum development position, but I turned it down because I didn't think I had the formal training to do the position justice. Now that I look back on it, maybe I should have accepted (they came to me first for a reason). Man, now I'll be mulling this over for who knows how long. |
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marley'sghost
Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 255
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:58 am Post subject: |
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| Inflames wrote: |
When I was an ALT, I told them they absolutely needed to be there. They didn't need to participate (I didn't really encourage the ES teachers to "teach" but helping me model something or participate in the lesson itself [such as doing activities] certainly helped) but they needed to be there (I didn't mind if they sat at their desk and planned lessons).
I explained it rather simply - I asked them what would happen if there was an accident. I was told that the student should go to the 保健室, to which I pointed out that they would ask the student what happened and that it would come out that I was the only one there, not them (they are supposed to be there) and it would look bad on both of us. |
Bingo. That's how you do it.
Legally in the public schools, there has to be a properly accredited, licensed member of the school staff in there with you. "Licensed and accredited" meaning anyone but the tea lady. Which is too bad, as I've know tea ladies who spoke enough English to teach it and were really cool too.
They don't have to do anything, but have to be there for liability issues. |
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