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Miles Smiles
Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1294
Location: Heebee Jeebee
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 Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 12:01 am Post subject: |
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| Baozi man wrote: |
A few weeks ago, a man roughly shoved me from behind and got in my face because I had been stopped by a security guard at a gate. I hit him in the face with my umbrella. I was prepared to do plenty more had he not scurried away like a rat. People react to physical assaults in different ways. For me, my responses are not so much a plan as a reflex. Perhaps your natural reflex is to cower, or laugh.
People cut in front of me in line, depending on my mood, they are going to get tripped, stepped on, possibly shoved aside. Maybe I will spit on their luggage. I hope I can change and become a peace loving, friendly person. Until then, I lift weights and recall the many years of martial arts training I had.
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Tell me it ain't so. |
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steve b
Joined: 31 May 2011
Posts: 293
Location: China
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| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 1:56 am Post subject: |
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| GWW it is serious because I cannot fathom it. |
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The Great Wall of Whiner
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 4946
Location: Blabbing
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| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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It would be off-topic for me to post it on this thread (IE, not about hired guns), but the list has been compiled.
Can't fathom hired guns, but they exist as demonstrated independently by the many posters here.
Can't fathom why people would rather be home yet they still stay?
I am among them... |
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steve b
Joined: 31 May 2011
Posts: 293
Location: China
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| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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Fair comment but I find it odd that people say somewhere they abhor.
As for the hired guns, now it has been clarified, of course I am quite certain they exist. |
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wangdaning
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 3154
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| Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 2:24 am Post subject: |
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In order for school administrators to rise through the bureaucracy, they must pass an English test. This is true in other areas, such as health care administration.
Few can pass the test. Their solution is to grab one of their English teaching staff and have them take the exam in their place. English teachers who take exams for administrators are known as "hired guns" or "assassins." Various people, usually school employees are involved. |
We have had people attest to the fact that students might cheat. Were is the information that school administrators and those in other areas must take an English test and most of them cheat coming from? |
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Baozi man
Joined: 06 Sep 2011
Posts: 214
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| Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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There are at least three contexts which require English exams.
One is part of a civil servant's exam. In order to rise through the ranks of the civil service, civil servants must pass a test which includes English. This is a common practice in the States as well. Not sure why it should be met with such incredulity.
The other type of test is required by individual companies. Like the civil servant's exam, these tests are part of the promotion process for non civil service organizations. Again, this type of thing is not unusual for any large company.
Sometimes, individuals must complete academic requirements in order to advance in their careers. For instance, a university degree of some sort might be required for job advancement. These academic hurdles usually include an English component. Hired guns are employed for these exams as well.
The three different contexts in which hired guns" might be employed are:
Civil service,
Corporate/ danwei environments
Academia
Regarding hawking big goobers on the luggage of people who cut in line, "It ain't so." |
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The Great Wall of Whiner
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 4946
Location: Blabbing
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| Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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| wangdaning wrote: |
| Were is the information that school administrators and those in other areas must take an English test and most of them cheat coming from? |
I can't speak for others, but for me, it comes from many sources. My wife. Her cousin. A former co-worker. A division leader. My best friend. This very forum. A student's parent. My neighbour...
In my mind, why would multiple people lie about this?
Do you know any Chinese civil servants? My best friend is one. He passed it the fair and square way. He told me that a large chunk in his division cheated during the examination.
After knowing him for 9 years, I have no reason to believe he would lie about it. And I have no reason to believe Baozi Man is making up stories, either. And I have no reason to believe my wife is lying, nor my former co-worker, nor my wife's cousin...
To say that they all cheat is unfair. However, even without being told, one can wonder how they pass these English exams when they cannot even construct a single English sentence together?
It's people like my friend who studied hard the old-fashioned way who are left out in the cold in the end. |
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wangdaning
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 3154
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| Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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I am not sure if we are talking about civil servants or school administrators. I would imagine most school administrators have been in their positions for quite a few years.
For younger people I would believe they must pass the English tests, but many administrators are not young and I doubt they were required to take an English test. |
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igorG
Joined: 10 Aug 2010
Posts: 1473
Location: asia
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| Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 1:05 am Post subject: |
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| wangdaning wrote: |
I am not sure if we are talking about civil servants or school administrators. I would imagine most school administrators have been in their positions for quite a few years.
For younger people I would believe they must pass the English tests, but many administrators are not young and I doubt they were required to take an English test. |
I think the discussion is about school administrators. How long they've been in their positions depends on what administrative level we are talking about. The local officialdom allows quite a few levels as far as my experience goes.
The younger administrators, to my knowledge, usually fill in the entry level administrative posts; however, some ambitious ones that come from fine families are unconditionally pulled up the ladder. The point here is that in any case it's not helping students, teachers and schools overall. If you get a poorly prepared test with weak administering standards, it'll mostly send wrong messages to all.
In the end, it's about the loyalty to the employer and nation, which usually overrides the importance of any kinds of tests here. Locals may get jobs, but they must guarantee they won't swing in different directions, which usually is overseen by the older administrators at the top of the ladder. |
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Baozi man
Joined: 06 Sep 2011
Posts: 214
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| Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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Let's not forget so called "middlemen" who specialize in getting dullards into univestities where they don't belong. Ever wonder how it is that the student who never comes to class , or sleeps all the time managed to get into a top uni? RMB, that's how. It's not cheap but what is your kids future worth to you especially when you are going to depend on him when you are old?
A while ago, there was an article in China Daily about a PSB officer who stole the identity of a poor student with excellent grades. He, using his security clearance to access school databases, erased the poor girl and put his daughter in her place.
Admittedly, an outrageous event but the idea is not unusual at all. If you have the might to crush the weak to advance your own interests, use it.
That's basically how China operates. |
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jayjjasper
Joined: 27 Aug 2011
Posts: 344
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| Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Admittedly, an outrageous event but the idea is not unusual at all. |
So data base entry theft is common?
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If you have the might to crush the weak to advance your own interests, use it.
That's basically how China operates. |
As far as this statement goes, it is like I told Little Marry Sunshine, this is pretty much how the world works..... |
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The Great Wall of Whiner
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 4946
Location: Blabbing
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| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:35 am Post subject: |
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| jayjjasper wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Admittedly, an outrageous event but the idea is not unusual at all. |
So data base entry theft is common? |
No, he did not say that it was common. He said that it was not unusual. These are two different words.
Good luck on your continued studies... |
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7969
Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong
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| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:45 am Post subject: |
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| The Great Wall of Whiner wrote: |
| jayjjasper wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Admittedly, an outrageous event but the idea is not unusual at all. |
So data base entry theft is common? |
No, he did not say that it was common. He said that it was not unusual. These are two different words.
Good luck on your continued studies... |
I don't think JJjasper is the one that needs schooling here.
Different words, same meaning. One antonym for "unusual" is "common." By extension, "common" and "not unusual" have the same, or a similar meaning. Check your thesaurus for further verification.
Unusual
Posters should be sure they have the correct info before mocking other members via smug signature lines such as the one seen above. |
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The Great Wall of Whiner
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 4946
Location: Blabbing
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| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:00 am Post subject: |
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| 7969 wrote: |
| I don't think JJjasper is the one that needs schooling here. |
Oh, I quite agree.
| Quote: |
| Different words, same meaning. |
No, they are similar but not the same.
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| By extension, "common" and "not unusual" have the same, or a similar meaning. |
I vote for 'similar'. Consider the following:
It is common to see foreigners walking all around Beijing.
It is not unusual to see foreigners walking all around Beijing,
Are the intended meanings to be the same in both examples? No, they are not. 'Common' implies that no matter where you go in Beijing, the odds are that you will see foreigners. 'Not unusual' suggests that you should not be surprised if you see foreigners in Beijing. English words-- even when they are synonyms, can not always be swapped around. Simple examples include 'big/large' and 'little/short'.
As the two examples above demonstrate, one may keep carrying a thesaurus around, but it won't help one with intended meaning-- and non-native English speakers learning from a thesaurus may end up using words incorrectly or with improper context.
| Quote: |
| Posters should be sure they have the correct info before mocking other members via smug signature lines such as the one seen above. |
The following is a self-reflection:
I have the correct info., and I am not smug.
I do not need to check my dictionary nor my thesaurus. Simply using the word in a sentence is more than enough for me.
I am not mocking others, I am helping them. I never feel mocked when someone teaches me something I am ignorant of. It would take a pretty fragile person to feel mocked every time someone teaches them something new.
I am not addressing others, I am addressing the message. The message appeared in my eyes to be a certain way and I addressed it. Not the individual.
I do not need to quote a passage from a dictionary or a thesaurus condescendingly in order to make a point about an issue. I simply make a few sentences and consider their usage and context. As a native English speaker, I am able to do just that.
I do not need to attack others in order to make my point. I focus on the content of the message instead.
I am able to post my messages and back them up with facts instead of criticizing others.
I do not go through other's posts and find fault with them and correct them.
I do not go out of my way to nitpick peoples' posts.
I do not spend time on this forum posting things with the intention to make someone else look bad. If someone feels bad about being factually incorrect, attacking me personally does not make them factually correct again.
Finally, I am not a Mod and I do not pretend to me, either. Therefore, I do not normally tell other forum members what to do or how to behave. |
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wangdaning
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 3154
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| Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:21 am Post subject: |
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| The Great Wall of Whiner wrote: |
It is common to see foreigners walking all around Beijing.
It is not unusual to see foreigners walking all around Beijing,
Are the intended meanings to be the same in both examples? |
I would say yes. Not unusual and not uncommon have the same meaning in my mind. Example: it is (not uncommon/not unusual/common) to see infants urinating in the streets. All tell me it is something that happens rather frequently, more than sometimes less than always.
I would say he said the idea was not unusual, meaning following through might be. So I would agree he did not say it was common. |
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