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jserio

Joined: 15 Jul 2010
Posts: 61

Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 10:01 pm Post subject:

isitts wrote:

Is the age limit still 40?

And... if take home is now 205k, does JET still have much of an edge over a job at AEON offering 270k, with housing subsidy of 55k yen?

I'm 38 (will be 39 in December). I wonder if this will affect my prospects. I've seen ads for AEON and they have interviews not far from me. Has anyone applied or worked for them?

G Cthulhu

Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 1373
Location: Way, way off course.

Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 10:47 pm Post subject:

isitts wrote:

Is JET still requiring an 8 year probationary period between stints? I finished JET in 2005 and the rule at the time was that I'd have to wait 8 years before I could apply again. They wanted to keep fresh blood coming in.

I think that's lower now, but I can't for the life of me remember exactly, and have zero inclination to go look right now. Smile

Quote:

Is the age limit still 40?

It would be very difficult for someone 40 or over to be accepted under the current scoring system. Someone on a second time through might have one of the best chances for that acceptance though, I suspect.

Quote:

And... if take home is now 205k, does JET still have much of an edge over a job at AEON offering 270k, with housing subsidy of 55k yen?

In general, I'd say it still has advantages. Regular hours, better support, and the holidays for *most* placements are still far superior. ESID still very much applies though. That said, I think the pay move is an amazingly bad idea.

Quote:

G Cthulhu wrote:

Under the new pay scheme it will drop for new first year JET ALTs to ~205,000.

? Does JET give raises now?

Yes, under the new system pay goes up for both the second and third years.

Glenski

Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 11:27 pm Post subject:

G Cthulhu wrote:

isitts wrote:

I think that's lower now, but I can't for the life of me remember exactly, and have zero inclination to go look right now. Smile

Here's what the JET FAQ says in relation to this.

7. Not have participated on the JET Programme since 2009 or for more than five years in total.

8. Not have declined a position on the JET Programme after receiving notification of placement in the last JET Programme year. (Exceptions to this rule may be made in cases where it is accepted that the partcipant had a valid, unavoidable reason for withdrawing.)

9. Not have lived in Japan for six or more years in total since 2002.
http://jetprogramme.org/e/aspiring/eligibility.html

G Cthulhu wrote:

Quote:

And... if take home is now 205k, does JET still have much of an edge over a job at AEON offering 270k, with housing subsidy of 55k yen?

In general, I'd say it still has advantages. Regular hours, better support, and the holidays for *most* placements are still far superior. ESID still very much applies though.

You have to understand the ESID part especially about rent. I've heard that some JET ALTs pay zero, some get partial subsidy on rent, and others have to pay full rent (which could be 30,000-80,000 per month depending on circumstances). Also, as G Cthulhu wrote, the hours are different. Think about eikaiwa vs. public school situation overall:

All of these are / can be different. So, what "edge" are you looking at?

G Cthulhu wrote:

Yes, under the new system pay goes up for both the second and third years.

I don't know what JET is thinking about salary cuts for first-year ALTs, but perhaps they are using this to weed out the very uninterested people from those who are willing to stick it out more than just a year. I've heard that half the ALTs don't even come back after the first year currently, so in a financial sense, it saves money.

isitts

Joined: 04 Jun 2010
Posts: 193
Location: Korea

Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 5:04 am Post subject:

Glenski wrote:

Ok. Well, I'm fine on those. Haven't participated since 2005. Never declined a position. And only lived in Japan for two years, period.

Glenski wrote:

G Cthulhu wrote:

In general, I'd say it still has advantages. Regular hours, better support, and the holidays for *most* placements are still far superior. ESID still very much applies though.

All of these are / can be different. So, what "edge" are you looking at?

Well, right. I'm familier with these differences. I've worked two public school programs (JET and GEPIK) - classes of 20-40 ...and I did a cram school in Taiwan (all ages, 4-10 PM MWRF, 9AM-12PM Sat, had Sunday and Tuesday off).

So, those differences, I know. The edge I was referring to was that before JET trumped cram schools in all areas (hours, vacation) including salary, and the housing....yeah, it's true. I know at the time I was there, another JET friend of mine had a nice apartment fully subsidized, while I lived in a ghetto apartment subsidized down to 9,000 yen (still not bad). And I know some JETs paid full rent.

But like, if AEON offers a better salary, and they offer 55k in housing subsidy and give 3 weeks vacation (that's what I saw in an ad)...if I could take the odd hours, doesn't sound like JET has much on it.

If you're a newbie and need the hand-holding, support, etc., then yeah, JET's great. And if it had the better salary to boot, then sure, no contest.

But if I've done this before and don't need the support, and the salary with a cram school is better...then one might have an edge over the other. That's what I mean.

Glenski wrote:

G Cthulhu wrote:

Yes, under the new system pay goes up for both the second and third years.

Would I be considered a first year JET if I've done the program before?

isitts

Joined: 04 Jun 2010
Posts: 193
Location: Korea

Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 5:26 am Post subject:

G Cthulhu wrote:

Quote:

Is the age limit still 40?

That's encouraging. I actually won't be 40 for several more years... but they seem to by quickly, so just trying to plan it out. Smile

seklarwia

Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano

Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 5:35 am Post subject:

isitts wrote:

But like, if AEON offers a better salary, and they offer 55k in housing subsidy and give 3 weeks vacation (that's what I saw in an ad)...if I could take the odd hours, doesn't sound like JET has much on it.

Are you sure about this? I thought that they "capped" rent at 55,000 not that they offered a subsidy of that amount.

isitts

Joined: 04 Jun 2010
Posts: 193
Location: Korea

Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 5:58 am Post subject:

seklarwia wrote:

isitts wrote:

Are you sure about this? I thought that they "capped" rent at 55,000 not that they offered a subsidy of that amount.

Think I'm reading it right. Here's the link:

http://www.eslcafe.com/joblist/index.cgi?read=24501

Quote:

� Single occupancy apartment furnished to Japanese standards w/55,000 Japanese yen subsidized monthly rent

seklarwia

Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano

Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:14 am Post subject:

isitts wrote:

Think I'm reading it right. Here's the link:

http://www.eslcafe.com/joblist/index.cgi?read=24501

Quote:

� Single occupancy apartment furnished to Japanese standards w/55,000 Japanese yen subsidized monthly rent

Nope you read it wrong. That is "subsidized" the adjective; not a noun. It says that the rent has been subsidized so that you only have to pay 55,000; not that you will receive a subsidy of 55,000 to go towards rent. Don't know why there is a "w/" in there... a (deliberate) typo perhaps.

Glenski

Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:56 am Post subject:

Agree with seklarwia. AEON is not going to pay 55,000 in your rent money. They merely cap the teacher's payment at that upper amount. If memory serves, you must take AEON housing, too. If you don't, they say you must pay for it anyway, even if you live in another apartment.

Also, from the AEON homepage:
The teacher is responsible for up to 55,000 yen of rent each month. AEON pays the amount over 55,000 yen. Commuting expenses are covered for teachers who live more than 1.5 km from work.
Watch that last point.

AEON also usually doesn't permit you to live with spouses or significant others in AEON housing.

isitts wrote:

There are a lot of ifs in your story, and it's nice to know your background of having worked here.

Cram school is juku, by the way. I hope you are not confusing that with eikaiwa.

Also, if AEON offers a better salary... well, let's see. How much will they offer the second year vs. JET? I think AEON has a bonus and then a tiny scale-up in salary. Maybe just the 1-time payment nowadays, though.
http://aeonet.com/application/contract.html
What will JET pay the second year?

And, those 3 weeks from AEON are probably what everyone else in eikaiwa biz gets (Golden Week, Obon, New Year), so that you can't really take anything else, and you will be traveling during the busiest and most expensive times of the year. With JET, you will probably have more days off. I don't know how flexible either one is to allow a teacher/ALT to request paid leave (5 days / year with AEON, but probably only if they will allow the time you ask for ).

With JET, you automatically get shunted into shakai hoken (national health insurance plus pension). With AEON...? Well, they say so, but confirm at the interview. They might be playing the shuffle game where they claim you are not full-time (29 hours or less in the classroom), and therefore you have to get kokumin kenko hoken and kokumin nenkin by yourself and pay the full amount (instead of having 50% of the copayment paid by your employer). Any AEON people out there know the scoop?

As for "if I could take the odd hours, doesn't sound like JET has much on it, what are you talking about? Those "odd hours" at AEON could be 5-6 days per week with your 2 days off per week being non-consecutive. Plus you get home around 10pm, whereas with JET it's always Sat/Sun off and you're out the door far earlier. To a lot of people, in that sense, JET does indeed score better.

isitts

Joined: 04 Jun 2010
Posts: 193
Location: Korea

Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 9:00 pm Post subject:

seklarwia wrote:

isitts wrote:

Think I'm reading it right. Here's the link:

http://www.eslcafe.com/joblist/index.cgi?read=24501

Quote:

� Single occupancy apartment furnished to Japanese standards w/55,000 Japanese yen subsidized monthly rent

Yeah, I realized that after I�d posted. But I�d already shut down my computer for the night. Thanks for clarifying that.

Glenski wrote:

isitts wrote:

Thank you, Glenski! I appreciate you going through all that for me. Yeah, it does sound like JET�s still the better deal.

And, yes, I know that juku and eikawa are different. I was trying to use a more general term that indicated a privatized organization, a business. But maybe even that doesn�t describe an eikawa. I�ve never worked for one.

Anyway, thanks again!

Glenski

Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:37 am Post subject:

isitts wrote:

And, yes, I know that juku and eikawa are different. I was trying to use a more general term that indicated a privatized organization, a business. But maybe even that doesn�t describe an eikawa.

Juku employ mostly Japanese people, and they deal with more than just English as subjects, plus I believe their clientele is mostly elementary to high school age children.

Both juku and eikaiwa are companies, though, despite the fact that they are called cram school and conversation school, respectively.

pnksweater

Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 173
Location: Tokyo, Japan

Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:45 am Post subject:

Glenski wrote:

with JET it's always Sat/Sun off and you're out the door far earlier. To a lot of people, in that sense, JET does indeed score better.

Glenski- have you ever been on the JET program? There are posters who have been or are one the program who are better qualified to comment on this sort of thing.

Some JET ALTs *do* work on the weekends. It depends on your school and your contracting organization. In theory you should be getting daikyu (a compensatory day off) for these sorts of special work days. However, there are always a few ALTs who don�t get the time off owed to them, particularly if they work at multiple schools. I have had to work 10 days straight some weeks before being able to take daikyu. That�s just part of the job. Some contracting organizations also want JETs to do community eikaiwa classes after school. You should be compensated for this sort of thing as well. Most I know in this situation get to leave a few hours early or work a half day once a week.

The real problem with trying to determine whether or not the JET program is a good deal is that there aren�t any hard and fast rules. We don�t actually work for JET. It�s more like a government organized employment service for schools, board of educations, and prefectures that need to hire an ALT. Your contract is with your contracting organization. While there are minimums set down by the program that COs must meet in order to contract a JET ALT, there are a lot of things not covered in those minimums. Things like housing subsidization, furnishings, deposits, transportation reimbursement, vacations, sick leave policy� all of these are up to the CO. None of this will be known to you until just prior to departure (if you�re lucky) or until you set foot in your school. This is why it may or may not be a position worth accepting.

Going with a private company, while not without its downsides, is certainly more predictable. They should be able to tell you about the specifics of your job and your contract upfront. Direct hire is probably a better option, but hard to find.

Glenski

Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:50 am Post subject:

Quote:

[quote="pnksweater"]

Glenski wrote:

with JET it's always Sat/Sun off and you're out the door far earlier. To a lot of people, in that sense, JET does indeed score better.

Glenski- have you ever been on the JET program? There are posters who have been or are one the program who are better qualified to comment on this sort of thing.

Comment away! Just provide enough details, is all I would ask. Such as:
How often do JET ALTs have to work on the weekend? Is it Saturday only? Is it a full 8-hour day? Is it teaching or paper shuffling or assisting some coach, or what?

Quote:

However, there are always a few ALTs who don�t get the time off owed to them, particularly if they work at multiple schools.

How many JETs are in that situation? I was under the impression that the vast majority of JET ALTs did work multiple schools. Anyone got numbers?

seklarwia

Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano

Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:01 pm Post subject:

Glenski wrote:

How often do JET ALTs have to work on the weekend? Is it Saturday only? Is it a full 8-hour day? Is it teaching or paper shuffling or assisting some coach, or what?

I'm not a JET but I have been asked to join them on some of the extra school events that they are expected to do. In my prefecture, it seems that almost monthly there is some HS event which will eat either part of or all of their weekend. We had English camp (Saturday and Sunday), last month was regional debate contests (Sunday) and this month was the prefectural debate tournament (Saturday and Sunday), to name but a few of the school events. And yes, these are entire days sometimes longer than 9-5.

Quote:

How many JETs are in that situation? I was under the impression that the vast majority of JET ALTs did work multiple schools. Anyone got numbers?

Again this seems a common complaint amongst our JETs. They are made to take part in extra school/community activities and told they can request daikyuu. But the daikyuu expires if it isn't used within a certain time frame and of course the schools/BOE can keep turning down requests claiming that the chosen time/date isn't convenient for them until it expires - a number of our JETs have actually had this happen to them at least once. I don't know whether they get over time pay in lieu of... it didn't occur to me to ask at the time.

G Cthulhu

Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 1373
Location: Way, way off course.

Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:03 pm Post subject:

Glenski wrote:

You know full well no one can answer the question. That's the point being made, and being made in contrast to your blanket statement that they don't.

Quote:

However, there are always a few ALTs who don�t get the time off owed to them, particularly if they work at multiple schools.

How many JETs are in that situation? I was under the impression that the vast majority of JET ALTs did work multiple schools. Anyone got numbers?

It's interesting actually. As the number of JETs has dropped over the last ~10 years and the overall number of ALTs in Japan has increased, the places that have been dropping JET are more often the municipal BOE's. Meaning, that JET is increasingly skewing towards SHS placements, and those tend (*tend*) to be single school placements.

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