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xiguagua
Joined: 09 Oct 2011
Posts: 768
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 Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Baozi man wrote: |
Why is your new opportunity so much better than the old one? Perhaps if you can explain that, I would better understand your plight. |
Just to think from my experience when I did this, when everything sucks where you're at, ie the city, the school, the students, the locals, the food, then it really hinders your performance. People start to see that you're not happy.
Now, if the OP is talking about staying in the same city, just changing schools......I would say that's crazy. Screwing someone over and staying in that area is really not a good idea at all. If you like your city and friends there whatever, then I think you can tolerate one or two bad things when everything else is great. |
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El Chupacabra
Joined: 22 Jul 2009
Posts: 378
Location: Kwangchow
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:33 pm Post subject: Re: Changing jobs mid-contract? |
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| panman36 wrote: |
| I'm about three months into my current contract. I'm unhappy here and I just got another job offer I'd like to accept. I'm wondering what exactly I have to do to change jobs? I'm guessing I'll need to have my residence permit transfered to the new school. Is that correct? Unfortunately, the new position needs me to start next week. What if my current employer won't cooperate? I'm prepared to pay the breach penalty of 15,000 RMB that's stated in my contract. Anything else I need to do? Thanks. |
As Mr. Buttkins so bluntly put it, you should man up and finish your contract. If you are blaming your job for your current unhappiness, what will your excuse be when you get bored with the next job? At some point will simply have to admit that you are just a restless and unhappy teacher? How will that gussy up your CV?
If you really like the new prospect, then simply maintain the relationship. Call them once in a while, the first time to tell them you have a current commitment, and the subsequent times to line up employment for next fall. This will tell your new employer that you are not fickle, and that once they have you they will have a stable employee.
Stick it out, and your current employer may actually write a complimentary line or two on your reference/release form. Your future CV will not have any breaks in expected sequences, such as the typical year at one place that most of us commit to.
If you cash out, and think that's the end of it, you are fooled. Unless your health or life is at stake, a few months more in one place will only make you more valuable to the next employer.
Why should your current employer cooperate? |
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igorG
Joined: 10 Aug 2010
Posts: 1473
Location: asia
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| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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My observation is that i'd be careful about an employer who'd be willing to hire a FT under a contractual agreement with another employer. Also, it's not a new term yet and so why the vacancy there?
I somewhat agree with others who suggest to stick with the current employer. That of course if you have a legal work permit and livable conditions there. Otherwise, i'd negotiate my way out. |
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Banner41
Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 656
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 7:20 am Post subject: |
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Changing jobs is painless if you are not dealing with a*holes. I did it. Kept a good relationship with the former school, got nice recommendation letter and all of my final pay. I gave 30 day notice in writing and made sure I attended every class and had grades up to date until the day that I left. Staying in a situation you don't like is stupid and finishing a contract has 0 to do with being a man. As someone stated, life is too short to stay in a bad situation. People all over the world change jobs and contracts all of the time so it is not some "noble" thing here by staying at a job you don't particularly like for whatever reason. Your reasons are your own.
Chinese that I work with are waiting every minute for a better opportunity to move to better situations. Why would we be demonized for doing the same thing?
I guess my take on it for what it's worth that yes it can be done in a civilized way if you do it the right way. Don't leave em hanging and just follow the procedures for the out clause in your contract. If it is a legal contract, there should be a reasonable out. I was not only given my release and letter of recommendation (Yes I know they are two different things) but was offered a job again the next term by the same school which I politely declined. |
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igorG
Joined: 10 Aug 2010
Posts: 1473
Location: asia
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 7:33 am Post subject: |
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It is right that there are such experiences as the one from above.
But
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People all over the world change jobs and contracts all of the time so it is not some "noble" thing here by staying at a job you don't particularly like for whatever reason. Your reasons are your own.
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All over the world may not be Middle Kingdom. Your reasons may have to be pretty darn good here.
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| Chinese that I work with are waiting every minute for a better opportunity to move to better situations. Why would we be demonized for doing the same thing? |
Again, there are such experiences on mainland China, although i doubt they are as common. Many Chinese, that i know, have worked with, or have heard of, are either tied to their jobs greatly or unable to make an easy exit due to varieties of circumstances. Perhaps, smaller private institutions give up on their employees easier.
Demonizing is one thing but staying safe and clear on what this country is about is another. |
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Banner41
Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 656
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:09 am Post subject: |
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| igorG wrote: |
It is right that there are such experiences as the one from above.
But
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People all over the world change jobs and contracts all of the time so it is not some "noble" thing here by staying at a job you don't particularly like for whatever reason. Your reasons are your own.
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All over the world may not be Middle Kingdom. Your reasons may have to be pretty darn good here.
| Quote: |
| Chinese that I work with are waiting every minute for a better opportunity to move to better situations. Why would we be demonized for doing the same thing? |
Again, there are such experiences on mainland China, although i doubt they are as common. Many Chinese, that i know, have worked with, or have heard of, are either tied to their jobs greatly or unable to make an easy exit due to varieties of circumstances. Perhaps, smaller private institutions give up on their employees easier.
Demonizing is one thing but staying safe and clear on what this country is about is another. |
Well put....
I don't think my situation is all that unique for a "larger" city. You are right though that some Chinese are "stuck" in their jobs. Doesn't mean that if the right opportunity came along and they were free to pursue it that they wouldn't out of some sense of honor. I think again that if done the right way (because face it....some who come to teach here just hate to work period no matter what the school does for them) it is quite alright to do so and keeping your "manhood" intact. Of course all situations are different and you need to be smart enough to when when it's right. The right thing to do at the time is not always the best thing to do in the long run. You should always be looking for new opportunities because you never know when the bottom is going to fall out on the situation that you are in. |
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Baozi man
Joined: 06 Sep 2011
Posts: 214
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:51 am Post subject: |
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When a contract is signed, in the context of a school term, it should be obvious to all but the most self centered egotists, that honoring the contract contributes to an orderly society.
Regardless of your self interest, try to think about the impact violating your contract will have on the students. Granted, the students are really the problem of the school.
If the school makes no effort to do whatever it is that you want and they violate the contract, then of course, move on. But if you can be satisfied and the school is willing to satisfy you, why punish the students?
If you think that persevering through adversity has nothing to do with being a man, then you obviously are not one. |
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Banner41
Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 656
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Baozi man wrote: |
If you think that persevering through adversity has nothing to do with being a man, then you obviously are not one. |
Persevering through adversity is one thing....sitting in a bad situation is another and has nothing to do with "manning up". I believe I was quite clear on doing things the right way if you do decide to leave and there is ZERO wrong with that.
(On a side note isn't it nice to have intelligent discussions on forums without character assassinations and name calling? I always welcome competing points of views and spirited discussions thus my apprehension at times to post on these forums when you just want to give an opinion or personal experience.....but I digress). |
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dean_a_jones
Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 1151
Location: Wuhan, China
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Baozi man wrote: |
| If you think that persevering through adversity has nothing to do with being a man, then you obviously are not one. |
What are you, 12? What is with all the 'man-up' BS that gets thrown around whenever someone complains about being taken advantage of by an employer? It's pathetic.
OP-it is a bit late now, but you said you can give 30 days. If a new employer wants you that bad, I'm sure they can wait. |
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El Chupacabra
Joined: 22 Jul 2009
Posts: 378
Location: Kwangchow
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Banner41 wrote: |
| Changing jobs is painless if you are not dealing with a*holes. I did it. Kept a good relationship with the former school, got nice recommendation letter and all of my final pay. I gave 30 day notice in writing and made sure I attended every class and had grades up to date until the day that I left. |
If you had a 30-day exit clause, then you may not have breached the contract at all. If you didn't, you did the next best thing by giving early notice and maintaining positive relationships for all stakeholders.
| Banner41 wrote: |
| Staying in a situation you don't like is stupid and finishing a contract has 0 to do with being a man. |
The OP started this thread by proposing a less manly exit strategy. From the OP:
"I'm prepared to pay the breach penalty of 15,000 RMB that's stated in my contract. Anything else I need to do? Thanks."
| Banner41 wrote: |
| Don't leave em hanging and just follow the procedures for the out clause in your contract. If it is a legal contract, there should be a reasonable out. I was not only given my release and letter of recommendation (Yes I know they are two different things) but was offered a job again the next term by the same school which I politely declined. |
Yes, always part on good terms, and use the out in the contract. I think we'd all agree on this. And yes, get both the release and the letter of recommendation from any employer, not just here in China. Later on, inconsistencies in your CV will be easier to explain if you keep all these letters and maintain positive relationships.
However, you should really consider the long-term implications of a contract change. One aspect of trust is whether you are a finisher or not. |
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Baozi man
Joined: 06 Sep 2011
Posts: 214
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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It appears that the real conflict is between those who espouse a traditional Judaeo/Christian ethic and, well, those who espouse heathenism.
Frankly, I don't care what other people on Dave's think about the choices I make to survive in China. People who are simply unhappy and want to break their contract because they can get more money or get laid or eat better someplace else are no different than those people they despise.
People with legitimate complaints against their employer shouldn't have to seek permission from people on Dave's to do what is right. Information, perhaps, permission, never. People looking for permission usually have a guilty conscience which they want assuaged by people no better than themselves.
Solzhenitsyn didn't become who he was by being a wimp! |
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dean_a_jones
Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 1151
Location: Wuhan, China
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Baozi man wrote: |
| People with legitimate complaints against their employer shouldn't have to seek permission from people on Dave's to do what is right. Information, perhaps, permission, never. People looking for permission usually have a guilty conscience which they want assuaged by people no better than themselves. |
| OP wrote: |
| I'm wondering what exactly I have to do to change jobs? I'm guessing I'll need to have my residence permit transfered to the new school. Is that correct? Unfortunately, the new position needs me to start next week. What if my current employer won't cooperate? I'm prepared to pay the breach penalty of 15,000 RMB that's stated in my contract. Anything else I need to do? |
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Lobster
Joined: 20 Jun 2006
Posts: 2040
Location: Somewhere under the Sea
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:33 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| It appears that the real conflict is between those who espouse a traditional Judaeo/Christian ethic and, well, those who espouse heathenism. |
I agree. Employment and contract issues are definitely spiritual in nature and can be dealt with morally only by those with the "proper" set of superstitions.
'Man up". Where does this phrase come from? It sounds like a trite catchphrase from sports, the military or a beer commercial. In other words, a macho environment high in testosterone but a bit short on brains. In any case, is it preferable and more "manly" to stay in an abusive and unfair situation and get taken advantage of or to walk away? It's a job, not a marriage for Pete's sake. Who says you have to stick around for someone who'd replace you for a cheaper drone at the drop of a hat? That's why contracts have termination clauses. If you want to leave, use them.
RED |
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El Chupacabra
Joined: 22 Jul 2009
Posts: 378
Location: Kwangchow
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Lobster wrote: |
| 'Man up". Where does this phrase come from? It sounds like a trite catchphrase from sports, the military or a beer commercial. In other words, a macho environment high in testosterone but a bit short on brains. In any case, is it preferable and more "manly" to stay in an abusive and unfair situation and get taken advantage of or to walk away? |
The OP says nothing about unfairness, only that "I'm unhappy here". In other words, he's acting like a fickle broad, hence the analogy to being a girly man. I think Arnold Schwarzenegger first started using that term.
| Lobster wrote: |
| It's a job, not a marriage |
Both have contracts, which may or may not have exit clauses.
| Lobster wrote: |
| That's why contracts have termination clauses. If you want to leave, use them. |
Using a termination clause is not a breach of contract, but fulfilment of the contract terms when parting. The OP, however, has suggested breaching a contract rather than using an exit clause. So this may be one of those contracts without an exit clause.
Unhappiness is a lame reason, and unlikely to win support from anyone other than another fickle broad. Or a girly man. |
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Lobster
Joined: 20 Jun 2006
Posts: 2040
Location: Somewhere under the Sea
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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Well, at least you're not sexist. Personally, I'd think of saying something like, "Don't be actin' like an Afri***." or "Stop being such a whiny J**boy.". Yea, that sounds much better. 
Ah good old Arnie, the steroid monkey adulterer. Good role model.
RED |
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