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inhanoi
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 165
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 Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:24 am Post subject: |
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With reference to outside work, my large Hanoi school permits this with the caution that if a conflict arises, the main employer has priority.
Also, while some money of course goes under the table on occasion, bribes are not routinely attached to Work Permits approvals. |
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kurtz
Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 518
Location: Phaic Tan
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:27 am Post subject: |
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You must have a degree to work in Korea, dodgy recruiters are the result of the massive demand for a foreign face in the classroom for marketing purposes. I don't quite see the same demand here but you may be right; seems there's a lot of cash floating around these days.
Maybe the VN Govt. is trying to kick out those who clearly aren't legal to be working here. Working on a tourist visa which many people do is illegal. It's illegal to work on a tourist visa in my home country, so I see no reason why people should do it here too. Actually wanting to live in Vietnam is not a good enough reason to be allowed to work in Vietnam. You have to follow the law which granted seems to change quite a bit.
Requiring all foreign employees in a school to have a work permit is a good step to cleaning up the ESL industry here and having this combined with a CELTA would add some veneer of professionalism in an industry crippled by dodgy schools who employ just about anyone off the street.
I'm aware there are many good teachers here without a degree, having a degree doesn't mean you're smart or can conduct effective English classes, but if that is what is required to get a work permit, you should have a degree to work in Vietnam.
Sorry for those without a degree, it seems it might be time to pack your bags or think twice before stepping on that plane to get your Asian experience. You're in a foreign country and you're at their mercy, you're not entitled to work in Vietnam or anywhere else apart from your home country. |
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LettersAthruZ
Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 466
Location: North Viet Nam
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:17 am Post subject: |
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| kurtz wrote: |
You're losing control a bit A-Z.
I work for a biggie, they know full well I and several others moonlight on the side. It's only an issue if you can't cover for sick teachers. |
Hey - if you say so, Kurtz.....just passing along my experiences and that of my friend.
Who knows, though - it's been a couple of years since I resided in either Ha Noi or Hai Phong....maybe they ARE now starting to allow side gigs......I can just pass along what happened to myself and a friend of mine.
| inhanoi wrote: |
| Also, while some money of course goes under the table on occasion, bribes are not routinely attached to Work Permits approvals. |
PLEEEEASE tell me that your joking? Either that, or you really have no idea how things "function" up here.... |
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LettersAthruZ
Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 466
Location: North Viet Nam
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:17 am Post subject: |
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| kurtz wrote: |
You're losing control a bit A-Z.
I work for a biggie, they know full well I and several others moonlight on the side. It's only an issue if you can't cover for sick teachers. |
Hey - if you say so, Kurtz.....just passing along my experiences and that of my friend.
Who knows, though - it's been a couple of years since I resided in either Ha Noi or Hai Phong....maybe they ARE now starting to allow side gigs......I can just pass along what happened to myself and a friend of mine.
| inhanoi wrote: |
| Also, while some money of course goes under the table on occasion, bribes are not routinely attached to Work Permits approvals. |
PLEEEEASE tell me that you're joking.....
Either that, or you really have no idea how things "function" up here.... |
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Mushroom Druid
Joined: 19 Oct 2009
Posts: 91
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 5:19 am Post subject: |
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| kurtz wrote: |
| Maybe the VN Govt. is trying to kick out those who clearly aren't legal to be working here. Working on a tourist visa which many people do is illegal. It's illegal to work on a tourist visa in my home country, so I see no reason why people should do it here too. Actually wanting to live in Vietnam is not a good enough reason to be allowed to work in Vietnam. |
The people I know working in VN Kurtz, are not working on tourist visas. They are on B3 business visas and they don't have a work permit because
1. their schools won't assist or sponsor them, or
2. the agencies that claim they can get a work permit for those teachers with all of the documents are dishonest, over-charge, and may not even get the work permit.
| Quote: |
Requiring all foreign employees in a school to have a work permit is a good step to cleaning up the ESL industry here and having this combined with a CELTA would add some veneer of professionalism in an industry crippled by dodgy schools who employ just about anyone off the street. |
All this will do IMO, is give more power to the schools. The large chains like Language Stink, ILA, Apollo, etc. |
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Jbhughes
Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 254
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:24 am Post subject: |
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| kurtz wrote: |
Requiring all foreign employees in a school to have a work permit is a good step to cleaning up the ESL industry here and having this combined with a CELTA would add some veneer of professionalism in an industry crippled by dodgy schools who employ just about anyone off the street.
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In an ideal world, this would be the ideal thing. But, this is Vietnam! Any process here seems to be just a convoluted mess, not least the work permit process. It isn't as simple as getting the pieces of paper mentioned before, and even if it were, those papers are not the most simple papers to get hold of either. What sigmoid states here is exactly right, IMO:
| sigmoid wrote: |
What VN and other countries need is a clear, consistent and transparent work permit/visa policy as well as familiarization with the concept of incentives i.e making themselves more attractive to those who have the qualifications and experience to choose where they live and work. Otherwise, they simply cannot compete. |
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| LettersAthruZ wrote: |
Glad I got mine through connections I have......The North is a s----y place to freelance....unless ya really enjoy trips to Bangkok every three months. |
I'm interested here, LAZ - what does your w.p. say on the bit about 'is permitted to work at...' something like 'được l�m việc tại...' Mine says the name of the company I work for. But you being freelance?
Further, to yourself and those who do have w.p.s., can we just settle it here that it is the blue folding document, that says w.p. on the front, with your picture and information inside and space on the r.h.s for extension stamps?
| inhanoi wrote: |
Also, while some money of course goes under the table on occasion, bribes are not routinely attached to Work Permits approvals. |
I really can't see how an employee could possibly know this. |
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LettersAthruZ
Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 466
Location: North Viet Nam
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Jbhughes wrote: |
| kurtz wrote: |
Requiring all foreign employees in a school to have a work permit is a good step to cleaning up the ESL industry here and having this combined with a CELTA would add some veneer of professionalism in an industry crippled by dodgy schools who employ just about anyone off the street.
|
In an ideal world, this would be the ideal thing. But, this is Vietnam! Any process here seems to be just a convoluted mess, not least the work permit process. It isn't as simple as getting the pieces of paper mentioned before, and even if it were, those papers are not the most simple papers to get hold of either. What sigmoid states here is exactly right, IMO:
| sigmoid wrote: |
What VN and other countries need is a clear, consistent and transparent work permit/visa policy as well as familiarization with the concept of incentives i.e making themselves more attractive to those who have the qualifications and experience to choose where they live and work. Otherwise, they simply cannot compete. |
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| LettersAthruZ wrote: |
Glad I got mine through connections I have......The North is a s----y place to freelance....unless ya really enjoy trips to Bangkok every three months. |
I'm interested here, LAZ - what does your w.p. say on the bit about 'is permitted to work at...' something like 'được l�m việc tại...' Mine says the name of the company I work for. But you being freelance?
Further, to yourself and those who do have w.p.s., can we just settle it here that it is the blue folding document, that says w.p. on the front, with your picture and information inside and space on the r.h.s for extension stamps?
| inhanoi wrote: |
Also, while some money of course goes under the table on occasion, bribes are not routinely attached to Work Permits approvals. |
I really can't see how an employee could possibly know this. |
Hey JB....great to hear from ya, Ace.....
Well, basically, it has the name of a company here in town owned by a close associate of mine on it who has a VERY good relationship with both, the local Canh Sat AND the local Immigration department.....so nothing ever gets questioned......and I didn't have to drop the $750USD - $1200USD that a few friends of mine did to get a Work Permit on their own simply because they had ZERO desire to work at LL/ILA/Apollo/VUS/[enter school's/centre's name here]
Now, do I ACTUALLY SHOW UP TO WORK EVERY DAY for my close associate's company?? Weeelllll..........
| Jbhughes wrote: |
| inhanoi wrote: |
Also, while some money of course goes under the table on occasion, bribes are not routinely attached to Work Permits approvals. |
I really can't see how an employee could possibly know this. |
EXACTLY!! Did you pay out of your pocket for your Work Permit, inhanoi? Were you physically in attendance during the proceedings when it was issued to you?
Well I was....and, no - it's not transparent and clean as you're implying.....I'VE SEEN IT MYSELF! |
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inhanoi
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 165
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Yes, of course your situation was special. My point is that most WP processing is done without adding a bag of money to the application. Do you think that a school processing 40-60 WPs a year is going to throw in $1200 with each application? You implied that this is done routinely. It isn't. |
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LettersAthruZ
Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 466
Location: North Viet Nam
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| Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 7:56 am Post subject: |
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| inhanoi wrote: |
| Yes, of course your situation was special. My point is that most WP processing is done without adding a bag of money to the application. Do you think that a school processing 40-60 WPs a year is going to throw in $1200 with each application? You implied that this is done routinely. It isn't. |
Emmm-kay.....sure thing.  |
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Andy123
Joined: 24 Sep 2009
Posts: 206
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| Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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I have had several work permits and resid. cards. A good friend and owner of a school never had too much trouble.
It depends on the ward, district, province and city. I know of some schools or indiv who have paid $$$$ plus the headaches.
THERE IS NO ONE SIZE FITS ALL HERE. This is from my many years of jumping through the hundreds whoops.
The game is getting old and I am ready to throw in the towel as the money, living conditions and work are no longer worth it.
Perfect for backpackers on a tourist visa looking for a few stories to tell and beer money. God help the students that really want an education.
Backpackers, please remember that page turning from the text book and chatting are not considered a lexical approach. |
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