Job Discussion Forums

[posh]

This is an article about KSA but the opinions can probably be applied to most of the ME:

http://arabnews.com/saudiarabia/article536850.ece?comments=all#comments

Some of the comments are hilarious.

Eg. 'I have worked as both a teacher and administrator at the PY and have seen loads of native speakers who were barmaids, lorry drivers, watchmen, cab drivers coming in to teach our Saudi students. They are unable to teach and the students are the victims.'

Those poor victims

[veiledsentiments]

The comments are certainly worth the read.

PNU sounds like a pathetic joke... on which millions and millions of whatever currency you wish to use have been flushed down the toilet. And it is just the latest in a sadly long list of Saudi universities that are caught up in the snake pit of shady recruiters and criminal administrators.

VS

[sharter]

TEFL teachers in Saudi should all be given medals for putting up with the shady standards, racism, religious bigotry, sexism and castration they put up with on a daily basis.

I've yet to meet an Arab teacher who can turn up on time....yet alone teach effectively without reverting to Arabic.

[Mikalina]

Four legs good; two legs bad.

[johnslat]

Dear sharter,

If you'd like, I can introduce you to more than a few.

Regards,
John

[sharter]

Yep....I'm sure you can. However, it's not my experience in the four Arab countries I've worked in.

There are probably 1 or 2 who could pass a UK driving test too. That doesn't make the vast majority good drivers.

[johnslat]

Well, my experience in Arab countries lasted 19 years, so do your personal anecdotes or mine have more validity

You really need to start hanging around with a better bunch of Arabs.

Regards,
John

[sharter]

I would if they could be trusted to show up on the right day.

[johnslat]

Dear sharter,

Considering tour self-described occupation: "Occupation:Teacher and shirker"

these Arabs you've encountered must be world-class slackers.

Or are you, perhaps, a teeny bit envious .

Regards,
John

[veiledsentiments]

I worked at 5 universities in 4 Middle Eastern countries over 16 years and met highly professional Arab teachers at each of them - both "other Arabs" and locals... both content and EFL.

I will admit that it could have been the times. The big jump in number of institutions, number of students, added to the local-ization push in each country has certainly resulted in lesser qualified people being rushed to the forefront before they were ready.

But, it is also true of the native speaker expat teachers. Every place had its shirkers of various nationalities who often missed that first class or looked the worse for wear.

VS

[sharter]

'Ain't that the truth' as our colleagues from over the pond would say.

I read the article and this blame the ex-pat teacher cos they're rotten is pervasive in the Gulf.

While I agree that there must be some competent locals, most I've seen talk the talk but don't walk the walk. With the native speakers only a minority are like that, especially at the tertiary level.

Re the article and comments? well, they smack of prejudice connected to other issues. At the root of all this is the inability of Arabs to take responsibility for their failings. Standards are poor in the Gulf. If they weren't, all the students would be doing interntional certification from a very early age....ie high school.

Let's also be honest; some of the 'best' teachers earn much more elsewhere and there is no reward for going to Saudi and having your life put in a straight-jacket.

And John....what's there to be jealous of? Really, that's absurd.

[Badar Bin Bada Boom]

[veiledsentiments]

[johnslat]

Dear sharter,

Sorry - as a general rule, I don't like generalizations and stereotypes. I was in the Middle East from 1978 t0 1983 (with a few breaks, taken in a vain attempt to preserve my sanity.) During my time in Saudi (arrival 1980 - final exit 2003,) I saw a LOT of improvement in the work habits/ethic of many of my Arab colleagues. So, maybe it's due to my having gone there so relatively early, when many Saudis were so new to the concept of such matters as getting to work on time, working while there, and not leaving early that I think there has been (generally speaking ) a substantial improvement in such areas.
Are Saudis as "time-driven" and do they have as rigorous a "Protestant work ethic" as many "Westerners" do? Generally speaking, no - and they probably never will. On the other hand, maybe we shouldn't expect them to, and maybe, in some aspects, at least, their way(s) of viewing time and work might not always be so very wrong, after all (inshallah )

Regards,
John

[sharter]

Maybe a few decades ago they lived in tents but why is it that outside of work adult Arabs are often really nice but in the work environment they're usually not so when in positions of authority?

We all know about time keeping, the pernicious effects of wasta and the dumbing down of courses to pass Saudi-ization programmes but the truth is, out here it's usually Jonnie Foreigner who gets the blame; that's because locals have a poor view of expats due to discrimination, politics, religion, history, arrogance, misinformation and 'chippiness'. In the UK, you cannot behave like that in a work place as you'd be in front of a tribunal in a flash.

Maybe things have improved John but there's still an awfully long way to go.

I don't think these guys will want to go back to living in tents when the oil's gone.