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Legal Action

 
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ajc19810



Joined: 22 May 2008
Posts: 214

PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:47 am    Post subject: Legal Action Reply with quote

Has anyone ever successfully taken legal action in Vietnam against a school or even a business? Or ever had a school flinch at the possibility of threatened legal action?
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just noel



Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 168

PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Legal Action Reply with quote

ajc19810 wrote:
Has anyone ever successfully taken legal action in Vietnam against a school or even a business? Or ever had a school flinch at the possibility of threatened legal action?


Successfully taken action? I don't know of any, although it's possible.

Taken action and failed? Yes. A few.

In Saigon 4 teachers I know of/acquainted with hired lawyers (who are under government jurisdiction, meaning they are a part of the government) and paid lots of fees to them to "sue" or file legal motions.

All of them lost.

As I do know the cards are stacked against foreigners here, I don't think any of the litigators had a legal case.

One sued because he was fired for spanking a teenager on the buttocks for her birthday in front of the class. He claimed it was a part of his culture. He was not liked before and there had been complaints. So, he was terminated. He sued, and lost.

Another in Saigon worked at IPS, and his contract wasn't renewed. So, he sued (foolishly). He paid money to a lawyer, and I think the case was thrown out.

Another in Saigon (who had been fired from dozens of schools) was relieved of a class and posted on the internet and filed suit that he should be paid for the 84 remaining hours, even the the contract stated specifically that both parties can end the agreement (contract) at any time.

In Hanoi a former recruiter sent a nasty email on company letter head for all to see, and was relieved. He went into denial, paid lots of money to a lawyer(s) and has not realized that he's wasting his time.

So, if you want to "take legal action," I suggest you move on, and just let it go.
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UpScope



Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Posts: 82

PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 3:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A recent article noting that at least one teacher has been able to bring legal matters to a conclusion;

http://english.vietnamnet.vn/en/education/15953/it-s-difficult-to-find-english-teachers--cause-of-cultural-differences.html
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LettersAthruZ



Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 466
Location: North Viet Nam

PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

UpScope wrote:


http://english.vietnamnet.vn/en/education/15953/it-s-difficult-to-find-english-teachers--cause-of-cultural-differences.html


Jesus.....could this article possibly have any more of an anti-T�y bias in it??

Perhaps I should write an article for this rag or for The Viet Nam News about "cultural differences" about how mollycoddled Viet students are lazier than.....aw forget it.....
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ajc19810



Joined: 22 May 2008
Posts: 214

PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice article. Thanks for that. I'll see how it all plays out. It's simply about proposed start dates and compensation for lost time.
Last time I mentioned legal action to a school they gave me a $3 p/h pay rise to stay on, but this was some time ago and it was at a language mill.
This particular school is a private primary school that hired me from abroad and asked me to start a few months later after i had arrived in Vietnam. Normally I would just let it go and pick up another job and wait for the new start date, but the owner is a cow.


Anyway back in Oz now till next year.
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Jbhughes



Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 254

PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good god that article is making my eyes bleed.

"As the English teacher could not satisfy the requirements in both the qualification and working shifts, he was sacked. "

The school didn't check his/her qualifications before employing them?

"The foreign language center, which provided the teacher, raised a lawsuit, asking to pay compensation for the dismissal."

It wasn't the individual who won, it was the company they worked for.

"the school once hired foreign teachers. However, the teachers did not have the work permit; therefore, the school had to terminate the contract with the teachers."

The school is meant to apply for the work permit in conjunction with the teacher, not magically get it from somewhere before working.

"Native English teachers speak too fast that students cannot understand them" Rolling Eyes

Bloody awful article.
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Oh My God



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 273

PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 3:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Legal Action Reply with quote

ajc19810 wrote:
Has anyone ever successfully taken legal action in Vietnam against a school or even a business? Or ever had a school flinch at the possibility of threatened legal action?


From my own personal experience, I was able to get a settlement from VNU in HCMC by hiring a lawyer and threatening a lawsuit. I consulted with this same lawyer BEFORE signing the contract almost a year prior.
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LettersAthruZ



Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 466
Location: North Viet Nam

PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jbhughes wrote:
Good god that article is making my eyes bleed.

"As the English teacher could not satisfy the requirements in both the qualification and working shifts, he was sacked. "

The school didn't check his/her qualifications before employing them?

"The foreign language center, which provided the teacher, raised a lawsuit, asking to pay compensation for the dismissal."

It wasn't the individual who won, it was the company they worked for.

"the school once hired foreign teachers. However, the teachers did not have the work permit; therefore, the school had to terminate the contract with the teachers."

The school is meant to apply for the work permit in conjunction with the teacher, not magically get it from somewhere before working.

"Native English teachers speak too fast that students cannot understand them" Rolling Eyes

Bloody awful article.


Errmmm....jes' wonderin'.....WHAT T�y/Việt kiều did they get to WRITE that article???


Naw....maybe it was a Vietnamese national with really good tiếng Anh ability.....
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Andy123



Joined: 24 Sep 2009
Posts: 206

PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Again this article shows the current trend of overt racism.

I know of several teachers and businessmen over the years who attempted to sue. None ever received any money.

I myself have been cheated over the years from several schools. A rough estimate would be over $3000. It is not worth it.

Walk and count your blessings that you do not have to look at their faces anymore. You can not win.

There are several English tranlated Vietnamese papers on-line. I use to read them weekly. It is good fun. Like the article about getting cancer from turning on the bathroom light when voiding (peeing). Better yet is the article that reported three young men being released from prison for rape because they had a skin mole behind their ear, which indicated that they were virgins.

The sad part about the culture is that most do believe that if it is written on paper it must be true. I stopped having newspaper discussions with students along time ago because it was pointless.
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ajc19810



Joined: 22 May 2008
Posts: 214

PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Oh My God. I respect personal experience. I take a lot knowing that it was VNU it gives me some idea on the credibility of the school. I have worked for a couple of these Viet private primary/high schools in the past and their administration is usually well structured when it comes to program delivery.
The decision has come solely from one director who has decided that they didn't have enough money at this time to cover my wage, due to slow enrollments.
It's interesting in that article that Upscope posted how it talks about schools promising students that they will meet a foreign teacher a number of times a week when they are fully aware that they are unable to keep that promise. Well, that is exactly what is happening here.
Very disappointed that this is happening at this level. Very familiar with this happening in other language centers I have worked for.

Andy123, you've been here a while so I would be surprised if that figure of $3000 is grossly underestimated. If you think about all the last minute class changes, schools holding salaries, schools closing down etc etc. I think my figure would be quite considerable in lost wages. Endless times I have arrived at a language center and been told its only 1 class tonight. Or how about the times flooding has cancelled class.

Nothing makes my skin crawl more in Vietnam than when a wealthy director will ask me to thong cam/sympathize for them.
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The Mad Hatter



Joined: 16 May 2010
Posts: 165

PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The article says when they got rid of the teacher the English language center that placed the teacher sued them for 100 mil. probably none of that went to the teacher but the teacher is blamed in this article. The school staffs argue amongst themselves, and point the finger elsewhere. This wouldn't happen if the school would be able to hire directly. But everything is so tightly controlled and licensed. the language centers are often the worst places to get a teacher.
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