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Norman Bethune
Joined: 19 Apr 2004
Posts: 731
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 Posted: Sat May 15, 2004 11:40 am Post subject: |
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And then there are those of us who have been in the game a while and have some teaching and LIFE experience who feel a need to counter people like you.
After all you do fit into one of the groups that unscrupulous Chinese employers love to suck dry:
1. quiet, submissive Western women who are able to spend lots of their time isolated.
2. 20-something back-packer types lucky to find a job anywhere. |
I'm glad Rickster wrote these remarks. Since I have been in China, I have observed that the happiest people who never complain much are young naive women and backpacker types who have a "I'm much smarter, more sophisticated, and hipper than the locals" attitude. They usually are narcisistic Kerouac readers out of touch with reality who have never had to work a real job in the U.K., Canada, Australia, or the U.S. Most are slackers who leeched off their parents while at Uni, and worked in low-level retail jobs part-time before coming to China. Generalizations, yes....but I'm talking about people in China who know just how good they have it. These traits make them complacent to being treated badly in China (where even bad can be better than in the west in a similar situation).
As for Western Women, they apparently don't have much to complain about in this male-dominated sexist society where even the ugliest pale-faced women is considered a thing of beauty. I have seen male teachers treated horribly at different schools when asking for things stipulated in the contract but not delivered. For women, because all Chinese men hope to get lucky with one foreigner in thier lifetime, treat them like queens and treat them better than men. And lets face it, for older women the ride is even easier. Chinese uniformly fear their mothers and treat older women with much respect as a result.
Professional teachers from overseas have usually worked at schools elsewhere before coming to China. It is the inexperienced free-loaders who don't give a whit about standards that just love everything here. Here today, back to mommy when the going gets to tough. Soon to be replaced by another teacher much the same. The pros stick it out trying to make a difference. That's why we complain.
"Contract, what's that?"-----Old Chinese Expression |
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windsorman1972
Joined: 12 May 2004
Posts: 26
Location: China - Here for the Cheap Sex Only
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| Posted: Sat May 15, 2004 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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To Rickster & Especially Norman - HALLELUJAH AND AMEN! Norman, if you ever run for office, let me know, you've got my vote.
I have been in China for over 3 years now. I am here because of the students - I was a teacher in Canada and Chinese students are more rewarding to work with, in my opinion. But, anyone, and I mean anyone, who goes on record with this crap about how wonderful the Chinese are to us and how wonderful we have it in China is either brain-dead or just plain crazy.
I don't miss classes, I don't show up drunk or hungover for class, I am responsible and have always met my obligations and yet, in 4 different schools over the last 3 years I have had to fight for everything. I have NEVER received anything on the contract unless I threatened to walk. That is the reality of life in China for lao wai English teachers. Period. Case closed.
For those of you with rose-colored glasses, who don't see the abuse and the racism, who love everything about China and working for Chinese bosses - get real and go peddle crazy someplace else.
Pat |
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anthyp
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 1320
Location: Chicago, IL USA
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| Posted: Sat May 15, 2004 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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Hey Norman, Rickster, windsdor ... you ever try working in Europe? Yeah, it's not a lot of fun. You'll have to pay your own way there, for one thing, because nobody's going to fly you there. What's that? You don't like your classes, or your bureaucratic bosses? Well over there you'll have to teach about 25 - 30 hours per week just to scrape by, and your salary there will make you wish you had never left home. No living the high life for EFL teachers over there. And no, they won't bother making sure you can legally work in the country, either. They might tell you they'll get started on your working papers "next year," if you're lucky. Funny, your bosses will try to screw you over there, too.
Nobody said working in China was "perfect." All we are saying is it's very good for EFL teachers, relatively speaking. Again, if you can offer a better working situation for EFL instructors, we'd love to hear it. Please, I'm begging you to even try. Everybody has to put up with the bureaucratic nonsense and unprofessionalism over here, it's not just you. So don't pretend like anybody is ignoring it or like you know the "real deal" when it comes to working in China. Would you not recommend EFL teachers come here? If not here, then where? |
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william wallace
Joined: 14 May 2003
Posts: 2869
Location: in between
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| Posted: Sat May 15, 2004 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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Nothing to say.
Last edited by william wallace on Fri Jul 01, 2005 12:23 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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william wallace
Joined: 14 May 2003
Posts: 2869
Location: in between
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| Posted: Sun May 16, 2004 1:23 am Post subject: |
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nothing to say.
Last edited by william wallace on Fri Jul 01, 2005 12:22 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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arioch36
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 3589
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| Posted: Sun May 16, 2004 4:20 am Post subject: |
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I really enjoy working in Henan. But you better believe that I'll complain when the try to renege on promises. ANy teacher who doesn't is part of what is bad in CHina, the corruption and dishonesty.
Along those lines Trod wrote;
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| Make as many connections as you can with people of importance, people of influence. I've met local government officials, who happen to love Canadian cigarettes. When you are talking with your boss, let it be known that you know these people by name and have met them. Once your boss knows that you know people like that, they sort of become your buddy really quickly. |
I agree China (like any country) can be good. Personally I despise foreign "teachers who make an effort to do this. Again, you are then part of the ugly side of this country. The corruption that relies on name dropping instead of efficiency. Officials and leaders who can be bought so easily are not the kind of people I want to know well. They are the kind of people who will let 50 out of 60 children die in the orphanage just so as not to lose face, and then take a picture with the foreigner such as yourself to show what a great humanitarian they are.
You never stayed at a school over a year? Your school doesn't care who you know. These people that become your buddies real quickly, you think it is because they like you? Or because you can be used by them to maintain a staus quo of oppression? Seriously, I am not trying to sound negative. I hope to return to CHina next year. The money is not that great. For a professional teacher their is not much long term security, you are better off in the states. But I still realy enjoy teaching in CHina.
But this part of what Trod said ...maybe it makes you feel like a big cheese, but you should understand how the corrupt underbelly of China, which is the source of a lot of misery, will try to use your "whiteness" to aid in their exploitation of the common person.
I ain't no bleeding heart or commie, it is the way it is.
| Quote: |
I think a lot of people who first came here had never had Chinese friends in their own country or any real interest in China or the people. Over 30 years I have and that is the main reason I came here because of the people.
I have not been disappointed |
The same for me. Many Chinese friends in the US, came to CHina for one year, still coming back.
Do miss pizza, outdoor barbeques, regural basketball with friends, and driving my car around upstate New York and Vermont. |
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stavrogin2001
Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 92
Location: Liaoning
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| Posted: Sun May 16, 2004 7:20 am Post subject: For the most part you are right, but... |
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I think you are absolutely right on about checking values at the door and coming to China without any judgemental airs, but I have one problem and it stems from having been a teacher in my own country before arriving.
I think for anyone that has ever worked with structure and organization in education, one might be a little sad about the state of things here.
So here is the big question, how much complaining is ok? I do not think a "Happy Shiny People" outlook always works either. I think that a good discussion can bear a lot of fruit and I think that is what for some this board provides.
So in closing you are right, there could be a lot less complaining in this forum, but your advice works both ways. If you do not like China or Chinese whatever, you should probably go home, but the other side of the coin is if you do not like the content of the members in this forum, you do not have to log in. |
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arioch36
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 3589
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| Posted: Sun May 16, 2004 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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And what is complaining, and what is solving problems?
After all, making things better often requires deciding what is bad. Is this complaining?
When it comes to housing and pay, I'll make sure that promises are clearly made. And kept!!! Overall my experiences have been good here in Henan. I have almost always been paid on time. But the FAO of my last school, lies came easier to her then swimming does for a fish. Complaining again and again does not ... does not work with such people. You have to, unfortunately, demand, and threaten. Ie, I had to go to the government office to complain to get my travel pay that was clearly promised.
WHen it comes to teaching, I have rarely found the ned to complain. When the school discovers that I am really interested in teaching my students, they will usually do anything within reason to help. But usually it is better not even to involve them. For instance, I didn't like my classroom. So I walked around, found a better classroom, and now have almost all of my classes there.
An exception, again, was my last school. Suppose to teach a movie class, but the school had no movies. Hey, I ain't going out and paying for movies for a movie class. If the school takes me and the class and the students seriously, they pay for the movies. |
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Synne
Joined: 06 Apr 2004
Posts: 269
Location: Tohoku
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| Posted: Sun May 16, 2004 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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For a non degree orientated individual working in china at the age of 18 let's say, how is it? Is there the opportunity to save for university or what?
(I realize this should be in a new topic but most ppl here seem to be very opinionated with wisdom on the matter) |
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arioch36
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 3589
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| Posted: Sun May 16, 2004 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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For a non degree orientated individual working in china at the age of 18 let's say, how is it? Is there the opportunity to save for university or what?
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First, are you British?
The money is okay while you are here, but what ever you save won't be worth squat when you return home, unless you teach your but off, in which case you will be too busy too know you are in CHina, in which case why bother coming?
If you are Brit or Aussie, take out student loans, then come here, becuase you will be so poor you won't have to pay back the loans (scumvermin ...I still have to pay my US loans)
Maybe you will make $500 US a month, save half, one year save$2,500 that's optimistic. What will that buy you back home? |
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Synne
Joined: 06 Apr 2004
Posts: 269
Location: Tohoku
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| Posted: Mon May 17, 2004 12:27 am Post subject: |
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| very good point and thank you for the info. |
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shannow5
Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Fri May 21, 2004 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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Personally, I enjoy that 20 something backpacker types are lucky to be able to find a job anywhere.
I am one of those.
I am into a top 5 law school in the US with standing offer of admission (when i show up, i go... actually I'm in to 3, but I chose the one I wanted), I also am working a quite comfortable job here, and have a teaching credential in the state of california. I, by working, have paid off all my student loans.
I am choosing to go to china.
I am choosing to live out of a backpack.
Because, well for me anyway, I want to get out of the US for awhile, it is driving me crazy and I am losing my perspective on the world.
I leave in a week, so maybe I am going to be one of the ones who complains, I don't know.
But i don't intend to be.
We backpackers are in a different situation, we aren't in it for the money or the long term goals, we are in it for living.
Not being divorced from reality and reading our favorite beatniks, but for the here and the now. for the I have enough to live, I am moderately well taken care of and life is new, exciting, and beautiful.
(I have lived out of a pack before)
edit - and frankly, i don't think there is any need to live out of anything mroe than a backpack... or, eventually, a sailboat. |
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