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struelle
Joined: 16 May 2003
Posts: 2372
Location: Shanghai
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 Posted: Mon May 17, 2004 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| You need to make at least 20,000 RMB per month in Shanghai to have the same buying power as someone making 8,000 RMB per month in Anhui or Liaoning Province. |
Well yes, the living costs and salaries are higher in Shanghai than the rest of China, but by this much?! You're quoting a 150% increase here!
By rough estimates, the basic costs (food, clothes, transport) are 20% more if that. Aside: the start-up fare on the taxi meter can be used like a barometer for transport costs - here in Shanghai it's 10 yuan.
Accomodation and rents are what's expensive here, and these can be the main drain on savings, usually more than 2000 yuan a month. If you're lucky enough to have a house provided, more the better!
So you can still you can save a lot of money here, even half your salary if it's less than 10K. If you do things like take buses instead of cabs, eat at local restaurants (not necessarily dives!), and shop in the markets you can do very well.
20K is far too much. You can have the type of buying power you describe for around 10-12,000 here.
Steve |
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Trebek
Joined: 30 Oct 2003
Posts: 401
Location: China
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| Posted: Mon May 17, 2004 2:01 pm Post subject: Many excellent points to consider... |
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Sounds like many say wait others say go for it. Talkdoc makes many excellent points to consider. I have no debt and am unconcerned about saving money for retirement. My son is mature and adaptable to most situations (we will take the Chinese kids to SCHOOL! in basketball!).
Now that I've heard good advice from both viewpoints (and I will consider everything carefully), which country should we look at? I have it down to China, Korea, and Thailand.
I'll probably visit this summer then move later if I like it... |
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James_T_Kirk
Joined: 20 Sep 2003
Posts: 357
Location: Ten Forward
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| Posted: Mon May 17, 2004 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Since you are a real, that is certified and experienced teacher, you should check with the international schools, since they often pay much higher than Chinese schools. It might be late for most of those schools for this fall. |
Good call! International School Services would be a good place to start.
| Quote: |
| (we will take the Chinese kids to SCHOOL! in basketball!). |
 LOL!!! That's what I thought too, and many of my students ended up taking me to school!
| Quote: |
| Now that I've heard good advice from both viewpoints (and I will consider everything carefully), which country should we look at? I have it down to China, Korea, and Thailand. |
Thailand is great, but based on what I know of the job situation there, it would probably be a struggle to make enough money to support both you and your son (unless you got a job at an International School). That leaves Korea and China. You never hear anything good about Korea, but the money is good there and healthcare in Korea is probably better than in China (don't know this for sure...uneducated guess!). I will admit that I am biased, but I say go for China! As far as where in China, Senor listed several good options in a previous post.
Cheers,
Kirk |
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Trebek
Joined: 30 Oct 2003
Posts: 401
Location: China
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| Posted: Mon May 17, 2004 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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| (we will take the Chinese kids to SCHOOL! in basketball!). |
That should read "HE will take the Chinese kids to school in basketball" not "Me"...
I can take them to school in skateboarding though... |
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Ludwig
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 1096
Location: 22� 20' N, 114� 11' E
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| Posted: Tue May 18, 2004 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Lee_Odden wrote: |
| Ludwig - You have completely missed the point here or are not interested in getting it because you were antagonized by the comment Talkdoc made about beer guzzling 24 year olds (which, for my school anyway in Anhui Province, is pretty damn accurate. Also, out of 18 ESL teachers here, 1 has a master's degree, 2 have BAs and the rest have TEFL certificates). |
You really are a jolly chap, aren't you? Indeed, I suspect it is actually yourself that is so enraged by those comments referring to the "beer guzzling" habits of English teachers on the mainland. It is certainly somewhat challenging to say the very least, as to why you would ever think that an English language instructor at a university in HK would care one way or another as to the private lives of individual foreign teachers on the mainland. It is, in short, simply not relevant to me.
Let me also just note that I do not for so much as one moment doubt that your school is just the way you claim. Please, if you would be so kind however, guide me to where, exactly, I stated otherwise. I think you will find, in fact, that my comments were directed principally towards HK (and 'TalkDoc's' erroneous comparison to mainland cities of a wholly different ilk).
| Lee_Odden wrote: |
| A woman is talking about coming to Asia with a 13 year-old son for a "stress-free" life and a "positive teaching experience" as an ESL teacher. That is really what Talkdoc was really addressing himself to; not salary differentials. |
Actually I would have thought it blindingly obvious why, exactly such points are highly germane. My comparison of paid holiday entitlements between my posts on the mainland and in HK will also be obviously relevant. After all, I would have thought it at least a useful piece of information to know, when weighing up all the said factors, that on the mainland you may get, say, 20 days paid holiday, whilst here in HK you can get up to 90 days annual paid leave. As already noted, for a mother with a child in two I would have thought this highly germane information.
| Lee_Odden wrote: |
I have to ask you the same question - your wonderful experience notwithstanding - "Have you been reading the advertisements and posts on this website."
I think not. |
I never listed any experience. You think right, however. When one holds a English language instructor post at a HK university one does not tend to read other job advertisements. |
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Ludwig
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 1096
Location: 22� 20' N, 114� 11' E
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| Posted: Tue May 18, 2004 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Lee_Odden wrote: |
| Ludwig - you need to get a life. |
| Lee_Odden wrote: |
| Most of us post here anonymously for a reason; so we can express our feelings without direct repercussions from our current employers. Why should he break his anonymity simply because some arrogant little sh*t in Hong Kong is feeling threatened? |
I take it, then, that you do not exactly have that much experience of Doctorate studies. If you had, then you would know that naming a supervisor and external examiners at one's viva breaks one's anonymity no more than does saying in which country one had one's viva.
As regards your obvious discomfort that many of us command university posts (I refer of course to your comment of "arrogant little sh*t"), I would merely state that this is, on your part, quite candid.
You are, in short, being discourteous and ill informed. |
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Ludwig
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 1096
Location: 22� 20' N, 114� 11' E
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| Posted: Tue May 18, 2004 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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| windsorman1972 wrote: |
| Lee_Odden is right, you need to get a life. |
I would suggest that you would benefit from at least reading the messages to which you are 'responding'.
| windsorman1972 wrote: |
| The man is a retired university professor from America (which, I have no trouble believing). |
Yes, the layman is often easy to please.
| windsorman1972 wrote: |
| Do you really think he is envious of your EFL position in Hong Kong??? Are you that stupid or just totally immature? |
I would be very interested in seeing where I expressed any envy towards any post or person at all. You did not get this from anything I have ever written. I would care to see where I have stated that I hold an "EFL position".
Yes, in fact, many on the mainland are indeed jealous of people earning $30,000 for a five-day Monday through Friday, 40 hour, 15 contact hour week; I certainly was when I was working just as hard but only receiving 5,000 RMB. It is quite understandable if you feel this way now. All I can say is not to worry unduly; one day you may secure such a post yourself.
Again, as your conspecific 'Lee Odden', you too are being discourteous and rude (and have failed in any way to assist in furnishing the original poster with any germane information). |
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Ludwig
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 1096
Location: 22� 20' N, 114� 11' E
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| Posted: Tue May 18, 2004 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| windsorman1972 wrote: |
| This joker [Ludwig] listed (paraded) his credentials and then asked Talkdoc to prove his. |
I did nothing of the kind; in either regard. |
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Ludwig
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 1096
Location: 22� 20' N, 114� 11' E
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| Posted: Tue May 18, 2004 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Lee_Odden wrote: |
| Schools and universities that pay considerably more only do so because the cost of living is much higher like in places such as Shanghai and Hong Kong. |
But here in HK we receive housing allowances from universities to cover such costs. You are propagating nothing but misinformation. What posts, exactly, have you ever held here in HK? |
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Lee_Odden
Joined: 22 Apr 2004
Posts: 172
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| Posted: Tue May 18, 2004 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Ludwig wrote: |
| You are, in short, being discourteous and ill informed. |
Wow...talk about the pot calling the kettle black!
Ludwig, it is fine to disagree with different points made by various members - that's what we are here for; to comment and to learn from each other. But your replies to Talkdoc have been contentious, rude and challenging in a very obnoxious manner. I can only imagine that is because he already has his doctorate and you don't. Or maybe you just hate Americans. Or maybe you were provoked because his school is more prestigous than yours. Who knows? Obviously, I was not the only one on this thread who had this reaction to you. When you lose site of the original point so that you can attack, challenge and insult the poster, for whatever reason (barring a direct attack on you); you are taking away from the quality of this forum.
I may not know much about the dissertation process but I do know when someone is attacking the poster as opposed to taking exception with his points and that is precisely what you did with Talkdoc. Why should he or anyone else have to prove who they say they are for the point of discussion? Why, so you can prove you have the most formal education on this forum including an "honors bachelor's degree"? Yes, he did mention that he had a PhD from Harvard but that was in the context of being asked by Roger what his background was. It was appropriate, not boasting. He didn't dump his resume on one of the posts the way you did. We already had one big episode with one member demanding that another one provide proof of allegations of sexual abuse. We are not here to demand proof from each other unless we have something to prove ourselves. (And, after your second taunt, he responded that he was willing to provide you will all the proof you wanted. Seems to me, you owe him an apology or are you too immature for that?).
Go back and re-read your first reply ever to Talkdoc's post on this thread. You engaged in ad hominem attacks and then your second reply to him was entirely comtemptuous and intended to provoke a reaction, stating that his "kidneys were in a twist" and that his entire motivation in replying was because he was "treated like a kid." Yes, that makes you, in my book, an arrogant little sh*t. And unless there is some hidden communication going on between the two of you that we don't know about, I cannot see where he deserved such insolence other than the fact that you may be antagonized by the fact that he is older, smarter, wiser and better educated. I don't agree with everything he says either; but I do get offended when I see one member, who contributes with experience and genuiness, get insulted by something who thinks he is as smart as you apparently do. I would have the same reaction to you if you had responded that way to Roger or any other of the members who contribute in the way Talkdoc does. I value this forum and those who post intelligently and sincerely on it.
You are incredibly full of yourself and it would be really nice if you could keep some of that in check when you reply to people on this forum. Address the points; don't unnecessarily provoke the poster for no apparent reason. That's all I am saying and I'll bet I'm not alone on this.
Lee |
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windsorman1972
Joined: 12 May 2004
Posts: 26
Location: China - Here for the Cheap Sex Only
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| Posted: Tue May 18, 2004 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Ludwig wrote: |
| windsorman1972 wrote: |
| This joker [Ludwig] listed (paraded) his credentials and then asked Talkdoc to prove his. |
I did nothing of the kind; in either regard. |
| Ludwig wrote: |
| I see you avoided two (trivial) questions regarding your viva; that is very instructive. |
You know what Ludwig? For all your alleged education, you are not really man enough to admit when you are wrong? Are you? I agree with Lee, you owe Talkdoc an apology. So, instead of apologising, you are denying what you said. You are really just a little brat who thinks he's a big deal because he's working in Hong Kong (excuse me while I throw up).
| Ludwig wrote: |
| windsorman1972 wrote: |
The man is a retired university professor from America (which, I have no trouble believing). |
Yes, the layman is often easy to please. |
Most people in North America have respect for university professors, no matter what their level of education is. Unless of course they think they are too important like you.
Hey Ludwig, what do you think a psychoanalyst and university professor makes in America? He probably drove cars worth 3 times what you earn in Hong Kong. Get over yourself -you are not as important or signficant as you think. It's probably been over 30 years since Talkdoc earned what you are making now. You are just embarrasing yourself old chap. If they ever start a foundation for people like you, let me know, I would like to contribute.
Pat |
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Ludwig
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 1096
Location: 22� 20' N, 114� 11' E
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| Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 12:30 am Post subject: |
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| windsorman1972 wrote: |
Lee_Odden is right, you need to get a life.
The man is a retired university professor from America (which, I have no trouble believing). Do you really think he is envious of your EFL position in Hong Kong??? Are you that stupid or just totally immature? |
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Ludwig
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 1096
Location: 22� 20' N, 114� 11' E
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| Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 12:32 am Post subject: |
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| windsorman1972 wrote: |
You know what Ludwig? For all your alleged education, you are not really man enough to admit when you are wrong? Are you? You are really just a little brat who thinks he's a big deal because he's working in Hong Kong (excuse me while I throw up).
Pat |
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golden monkey
Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 53
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| Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 8:59 am Post subject: |
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i must say im a little dissapointed. i thought this thread was about what would happen if these three coutries had a war. instead i get a bunch of pompous blowhards trying to out do each other in some form of academic achievment contest. ok, maybe just one blowhard...i didnt read all the posts very carefully. im partly illiterate. semi-illiterate. i can mostly read good, but not big wurds. i also make alot of spelling mistakes, cause i haVE fat fingers and hit the wrong keys alot, and dont proofread. thailand is nice, and u can buy anything there. china is cheap, but u cant buy many good things. koreans eat dogs. hope this helps.
ps: north koreans (i hear) also eat people. dead people. maybe the ground is too frozen in winter to bury them, or they are just poor and desperate. a chinese girl told me this. maybe she just doesnt like koreans. im kind of gullible. |
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