Job Discussion Forums

[katia04]

I've been kind of prowling this forum for a month, and I figure it's time for me to post. There seem to be some iffy if not downright fraudulent schools to work for (Hess, anything with 'Helen' in it), but what are some decent schools to aim for? I looked at Buckland, but the problem is I am one quarter away from graduating university and have not yet earned the CELTA certificate, and when I have done it will be April - I'm assuming their slots would fill up too fast. Here are the qualifications I will have, with any luck:
- over 3 years work experience with the same company (retail), in which I have seen both excellent and truly despicable management and have toughed out the bad times and enjoyed the easy
- I work well with people and can manage working with those I truly despise (I'm thinking of one coworker in particular here that I still have to work with, but I grin and bear it)
- one year ESL teaching experience (volunteering)
- CELTA
- Degree in International Studies (BA)
As far as the superficial aspects go, I am white, female, 23, not a great beauty but not ugly.
SOOOO...which are the higher calibre ESL schools, and have I any chance of landing a job in one? It doesn't have to be a top university or anything, I just don't want to be cheated.
Thanks,
- Katia

[dean_a_jones]

Are you from a native English speaking country?

You might have a bit of a problem on the experience side, as many places (at least the more reputable kind) are looking for two years post-graduation experience teaching. Often they are looking for someone 25 or older. This might make certain areas (like Guangdong) unavailable if you want to get a legitimate job. Am sure others can confirm this.

Having said that, as you say, it is a bit of a crapshoot. What you need to do is look at threads with titles like 'What to look for in a contract', 'How to find a good school' or something like that. There are a lot of them from the March - September period, as this is the major time for recruitment. They are full of ideas and perspectives on what you can do to ensure you end up in a decent job.

Don't trust spoken or emailed promises, do your research and if you get it down to a specific area, start looking for information on that city/place and what people have to say about living and working there. The biggest error people make is not doing the proper groundwork and research ahead of time, jumping in and realising their mistake too late, when they are tied into a bad school.

In this game, knowledge is power. The (worst) schools know this, and know that information is hard to come by when you are thousands of miles away, don't speak the language, and are unfamiliar with how things work. Get as much as you can, especially differing opinions, and err on the side of caution.

[katia04]

a) Yes, I am from a native English-speaking country.
b) I have read through multiple articles on checking credibility (call former teachers, do research on the area, reviews and reputation of school, etc.) and what to ask for in a contract (everything from pay schedule, TOTAL work hours per week, to what floor a provided flat may be on and whether the building has an elevator and a backup generator). I am just wondering if there are certain schools that can be relatively reliable in not deceiving their employees.
c) Do I need to be 25 years old with 2 years post graduation teaching experience to be employed legally? I've read that one only needed two years of working experience period, as a guideline, but as is the case in these situations, one cannot believe everything they read, right?
Thank you for your response, dean, I really appreciate it!

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

Depends on what you are personally interested in. Money, work experience or a good time?

Public schools will pay less, but you will (generally) work less if you are careful not to be taken advantage of.

The 2-year rule is pretty flexible, depending on your. China is not very strict with who they get in the classroom. Criminal record? No problem? No education? Work around it. Other countries no chance.

Major areas such as Beijing, Shanghai, Hong Kong, etc. will pay more and give you more stability, but more expensive to start up.

Do you have a 'wish list' for where you would like to teach? Make a wish list and shoot for it.

[katia04]

Thanks, GWW. For the record, not really into "the social scene" - I care more about teaching and experiencing a new culture and environment than anything else - call me naive and idealistic, but there ya go. Anyway, is there anywhere online I can go to apply for public school jobs, like an official site, or is it just the same as everything else, and must be found on the same job search sites? And would a public school be more of a stickler about the rules, seeing as they're a bit more tied into the government than others? Just wondering. Sorry to badger everyone lol. Thank you for all the info!

[7969]

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

If you are a stickler for the rules and want a job that sticks to the rules like fly on you-know-what, I'd look at a public school in one of the major cities. Very, very few private schools adhere by the book. If there is a way around something, chances are they will do it.

There are things to watch out for, however. A year of torture is not worth saving the hassle of researching the location you plan to work at. check up on schools before you commit!

7969 offers some decent sites (I do not believe that is the same Helen that others are worrying about) but you can also find good jobs on this very site.

[7969]

[Non Sequitur]

My advice is be conservative in your first gig.
The public uni/vocational college sector @ say 5000rmb pm plus single occupancy accom on campus, around 10000rmb airfare allowance, max 20x45 min contact hours pw plus paid winter holiday.
Minimum of 5 other FTs and a history of hiring and retaining these is also a must.
Even so accept the likelihood that one of the 5 will have an alcohol problem, one will be barking mad, one will be a narcissistic prat and one will be a lecher.
Did you mention the timeline for getting a job? The public sector usually is most active around April/May/June for 1 September start. That said, there will be a brief flurry of activity for starts after Chinese NY.
Go for it.
Best

[doogsville]

I can vouch for American TPR here in Zhuhai. I just renewed by contract with them, as have several other teachers. The money is not brilliant, but they are honest and trustworthy. Zhuhai is a great place to live in my opinion, and there's an expat scene if you're into it. Most of the students I teach come from other parts of China, so there's always people looking to make new friends in a new city. The work is pretty standard stuff for a private language school, mostly at weekends and evenings. They advertise regularly here, they are expanding quite a lot at the moment, so they will likely be looking for people in April if that's when you are available. I would get in touch with them sooner though, cos it can take a while to process your Z visa and work permit, which they will do with no problems.

[milkweedma]

[katia04]

Thanks, guys! I'll be done with everything (university, CELTA) by May. I've been looking into public school ads on ESL websites, including this one. There just don't seem to be too many, and a couple are suspect. Thanks for the tip about the private school, though; I may look into that, but I worry about a job being available when I'm ready to apply...someone suggested on another board that going through a recruiter makes finding a public school job easier, but with all the bad stuff said about recruiters, I'm REALLY hesitant to do that. However, it's rather pointless looking at jobs starting in February when you are not going to be even eligible to apply until May (I've actually been obsessing a bit...quite problematic at the moment lol). I've always been a very cautious person, and even before posting had every intention of doing thorough research before committing to anything; I'm just hoping to sift through the bogus/crappy/disreputable jobs in the first place to save a bit of time.
Thanks again,
Katia

[doogsville]

When you talk about public schools, do you mean government funded primary and secondary (middle and senior) schools? The terms vary from country to country, so I'm not sure. My experience of public school teaching in China is that it's hard, hard work. Big classes, forty to sixty students, most of who don't care about learning English in the slightest.

I've found private language schools a little easier, smaller classes and a mix of teaching adults who volunteer to be there and the occasional interested young person mixed in with those forced to come along by their pushy parents. The downside is the unsocial hours, most of my teaching is done at the weekends and in the evenings.

There are always vacancies but most of the recruiting aimed at filling positions for the Spring and Autumn semesters. You may not have as much choice, but I shouldn't think you'll have too much trouble finding a job in May, it's all about research and a little bit of luck. My main piece of advice is to ask any potential employer to give you the email address of one or more of their existing teachers, with prior permission of course, who you can contact for an opinion. A good employer will not be afraid to allow you to speak to an existing employee.

[steve b]

I teach at uni and my average class size is 27. Last year I found myself teaching a class of nearly 60. It did not take long (even as a new teacher) to realise this was no good for me and more importantly, the students. I went "upstairs" and the problem was solved - the class was split in two. Ok, so an extra class but it only took me over my contract lessons of 16 lessons for a few weeks, when another of my classes graduated.

[igorG]

To my knowledge, it's quite unusual to have the public school's agreement to split a larger class. This above public school must have had some lucky stairs up.

OP, there are opportunities out there and you have to make the phone calls, check the sites, and perhaps ask for FT contacts there. The best way to avoid disappointments is by visiting the place in person.