Job Discussion Forums

[erracht]

Okay, I need to ask for some serious advice/
reality checking. This is my story: I studied Classics,
French Literature and English at In my third year, I
started volunteering in schools, in order to gain
admittance to teachers' college. I applied to the U of T
year and was flatly rejected for lacking of the
minimum number of hours of teaching-related
experience. So I spent a semester doing full-time
volunteering and applied to four teachers'
colleges. Still, I got rejected, though three of the
schools considered me for a second round etc. I
I was informed by the U of T that I had met their
requirements, but they had WAY too many many
applicants. So my situation was that I had a general
arts degree after four years of hard work and my
parents' money spent, but am hard-pressed to find a
job with it. So I decided to try TEFL teaching. I
got my certificate in a Prague school - I am sill
in the city looking for work. But I'm already thinking
about what I'll be doing when I come back to
Canada (perhaps in June, when the school year
ends). I was hoping some of you could help me
out with some advice.

Before I came here, I was told by a friend, herself
a successful schoolteacher, that there is a great
need (back home) for ESL teachers. She even
suggested that community colleges are in need of
such people and would hire them with minimal
credentials (and here I am with a university degree
and a TEFL certificate). Sounds encouraging, but I
wonder if this cornucopia of jobs in Canada is not
a bit unrealistic. I have read some of the posts on
this board and do not find them encouraging. For
one thing, the pay seems to be miserable. I have
calculated that one of the posters is paid some
$24,000 CDN per annum. That is much less than
one would make even in various blue collar jobs.
Is there anything like a job for ESL teachers in
Toronto that gives you a decent salary (say,
$35,000 as a minimum)? Are there any government
programs that employ English teachers? On the
whole, are the prospects for employment anywhere
near decent?

I was told that I could go to Quebec and teach
English in a school, without having had teachers'
college (nowadays, typically a 4-year bachelors
program in that province) for at least two years
as a temporary teacher. Is this true?

I am seriously thinking of switching career paths.
I had a job this summer in a toronto newspaper,
helping edit a professional directory. I was on a
student salary and it was temporary, of course,
but the work, if not particularly related to my
field of study, was really decent. Does anyone
know if there are any REAL jobs open in this
field (editing) that I would qualify for?

Any advice and sharing of knowledge is highly
appreciated.

[Gordon]

I can sympathize with your wanting to find a livable wage as an ESL teacher in Canada. If you really want to be a public school teacher in Canada, maybe you should teach overseas for a couple of years and get some experience. I know that most BEd programs want teachers with experience and are highly competitive.

[Capergirl]

So Gordon, according to your post, I don't even have "minimum credentials".

[Gordon]

For most community colleges I'd say you don't, Capergirl. That doesn't mean you can't get a job though. I also worked in a community college in Canada w/out a Masters, but for most of them I couldn't qualify. Without teaching experience, I'd say almost no chance and this poster claims he has no experience.

Competition is getting worse in Canada, not easier. I looked into one college in Canada (Vancouver area) that wasn't asking for a masters and I later found out from someone there that they received over 50 applications from people with a Masters, not counting those with a BA!

[Capergirl]

Since I work in Canada (at a university and not a community college), I can tell you that what the institutions ask for and what they get are often two completely different things. I've called several universities across the country and they all said that a Master's is either "required" or "preferred". When pressed further, however, some admitted that they sometimes hire people with only an undergraduate degree and a TESL certificate. The main requirement they all didn't waiver on is experience, so I will agree with you on that much.

I do think that the competition is likely highest in areas such as Toronto and Vancouver where there is a huge demand for ESL. Nonetheless, as more people in this 'industry' are getting better qualifications - like Master's degrees - standards continue to rise and soon it will be just like you are saying. Someone like myself would be wise to hurry up and get that MA started.

[Corey]

I have to agree. The downturn the business is experiencing right now is going to cause a shakeout. The MA will be manditory for colleges, maybe even get to be common for private schools. I suppose it might also mean better wages for teachers but I could be wrong about that.

Unless the certificate you're working on now can be converted to a TESL Canada certificate it isn't worth the paper it's printed on.

Good luck,

Corey

[J.]

Erracht, if you really want to be a teacher, you should try teaching overseas for a year or two and document your experience in a kind of visual resume showing yourself teaching and doing things with students. If you get some experience overseas you will stand out from the crowd when you make your application. You might also consider going to school in another town than Toronto if the competition is too great there. I studied at a small University in Nova Scotia, Mount St. Vincent (Halifax), but they offer BEds only in Elementary Education. I think one is a French-track though. When I was there a few years ago , there was a big need for only one kind of teacher in Nova Scotia, FRENCH teachers. You might check it out if you are at all interested. The college has a good program.

Another option would be to get a Masters in ESL. I don't know if you would be able to get a job in Canada but it would qualify you for a university teaching job in Japan. The sad fact is that there a lot of people wanting to teach in Canada but the market for educators is not that rosy. Recent Governments seem to have reduced teachers along with education budgets, making more stress for the ones working. They do keep saying that many will have to retire soon and there will be a big need for teachers in the future. Let's hope so!

Good luck!
J.

[GambateBingBangBOOM]

Warning: long rant
I was actually in a similar position.

After a four year degree in Music History and English Lit, I did a year long programme at a college in Toronto in advertising, before discovering that I SUPRA SUUUUUUUUUCKKKCKKKCKKKCKK at advertising. From there I ended up in retail for a year and a half, during which I applied to b.ed programmes throughout Ontario for hundreds of dollars. Got rejected.

Then I did this: I applied to CTESL Certificates through UofT (Woodsworth) Carleton University (in Ottawa), and in case I got the big D (as in D nai!!!) I applied to Humber College and Algonquin College. During my retail time, I had a lot of time to think (there's not a whole lot else to do when you do the manual tetris for a living from 9pm til 7:30am every day) and decided that I really ***REALLY*** wanted to be a teacher.

I got accepted to all of the programmes.

I did one of the programmes. (Reapplied to B.Ed programmes and got rejected again, I have all requisites but there's just too much competition. Remember that although the number of applicants to B.Ed programmes in Ontario have gone down, there's still something like ten applicants to every single spot, especially in areas like English as a teachable).

One option if it's specifically kids you want to teach is to go down to Buffalo and do one of the B.Ed programs there. There are programs at Medaille and some other college (D'Youville, maybe more those are just the two that came to visit my uni) specifically for Canadians who want ot teach in Ontario. Why? Well, because there are so few spots for B.Ed programmes in the province. I thought about that before applying to the CTESL programmes, but the cost... Also, there's teacher training in the UK or Australia or New Zealand but again, there's the cost. Visit the career centre of ther uni you graduated from.


Minimal qualifications for college level could be looked at as a year long CTESL programme (meaning TESL Ontario certified), plus a degree, plus several years experience. But really, what they want is an MA in Applied Linguistcs. That'll hopefully be my next step (unless I get the big D on that one too).

I'm now in Japan on the JET programme.


As for editing: You would almost definately need to go to either Ryerson or Cenntenial (or elsewhere if you leave Toronto) for a publishing certificate (probably my next step if I get the big D on the MA) or do a diploma in journalism in order to get that kind of a job. Sucks for sure, but that's pretty much the way it is. Four years university plus at least one at college in order to eventually get that coveted 20K~25K a year often doing no more than photocopying, putting together press kits or looking for typos. NoTE: editing is NOT something to do for money either. There are very few jobs in Toronto, the Canadian publishing industry is being crushed by the American industry and a lot of the Canadian arms of big American publishing houses are little more than distribution centres (read: warehouse duty, not editing). And how popular are books written and produced in Canada (with the exception of the Margaret Atwoods et al out there)? That leaves magazines. Not a big money maker in Canada either. (The reason I would do it is just because I really REALLY like the English language and working with it. May not get me a job though. Just MORE debt that I can pay off either overseas teaching ESL or in retail or at a one of the "various blue collar jobs". Or it could get me into ESL textbook publishing, an area I'd definately be interested in).

As for "I have
calculated that one of the posters is paid some
$24,000 CDN per annum. That is much less than
one would make even in various blue collar jobs.
Is there anything like a job for ESL teachers in
Toronto that gives you a decent salary (say,
$35,000 as a minimum)?"

That's more or less the way it is. Most entry level jobs pay less than you make "in various blue collar jobs". The problem is that without an MA, TESL doesn't seem to go up from that point very much at all. Other areas do (advertising does, corporate communications does, HR does). A problem is that there are a lot of people who are in it as a second income, or are volunteering. That's how the drastic need for ESL teachers in Toronto is being filled up. And if you fill a position with a volunteer, are you really going to want to replace said volunteer with someone you have to pay?


Sorry if this all sounds bitter. There's a reason for that: I'm bitter.

[sprightly]

so, i'm a slacker to the Nth degree, but i can tell you a bit about montreal.

there was a metro strike this fall, at which time i learned that the people sweeping out the stations were making more money than me. and benefits. and free metro passes.

jobs for private esl companies run $12-40/hr. the average seems to be 18. they offer between 2-15 hours a week. i had 6/wk with one, lost a 2 hr class because i screwed up, and when my contracts finished, heard nothing. talking to people who've been with them for years, they said this was a hard year. most clients are with the federal gov't.

so, here i am working for three schools, just breaking even (having nasty credit debt doesn't help) spending 4-8 hrs a wk job hunting, and trying to get into clinical studies to get a jump on my debt. sheesh!

but, i'm having loads of fun. i have two schools drooling over me, but unable to give me any contracts that fit my schedule. summer sucks.

what i should be doing, and haven't...
--talk to the universities about their summer programs. they haven't advertised for teachers, but one never knows.
--ask around at the CEGEPS and community colleges.
--advertise around the universities. several people i know have supplemented their income quite well this way. it's not stable, you have to keep pushing, but you can make $20-30/hr.

there are gov't positions, they are hard to find, and involve taking "linguistic competency" exams which are total bullocks. grr.

when i interviewed in toronto, the gist was that the market dries up over winter, and is frantic in the summer.

get the experience where you are, enjoy it, run with it. you might even end up in magazines there; perhaps working with the expat journalist community? i remember there being some english language stuff happening in eastern europe, and i'm sure they'd welcome volunteers with experience.
i'd much prefer to be overseas; i even have dreams that i'm back in slovakia, and i wake up happy. when i've finished my part-time masters, i'll likely fly over. it's perfectly legitimate to have a career overseas.

[Gnome]

I agree with everything the previous posters have said about teaching ESL in Canada. Salaries are $15-40, with $40 being University or College courses. Most places that you would qualify for would pay $15-21.

Without an MEd In TESL and a Teaching Certificate, you will be forever relegated to the TESL ghetto, and poverty. Even the CELTA is worth next to nothing in Canada.

Get a teaching certificate in Elementary or Secondary Education, and then take Ministry of Education professional development courses in TESL at York, U of T, etc. All school boards want to hire teachers who are flexible, not specialists. Don't apply to an education program with the idea of becoming an ESL Specialist. That could be why you are being denied entry. After a few years in the system and with a few TESL qualifications on your teacher's record card, you can move into ESL.

Don't limit yourself to getting a degree or 1-year post degree education certificate from U of T. Apply outside of Toronto: Queens, McGill, U of Calgary or something up in Northern Ontario where the competition is less.

If you don't become a Certified Teacher, then change career directions ASAP. Don't delay! Escape the TESL Ghetto while you still have a chance to do something more lucrative, secure and satisfying. You can always teach part-time evening classes at community centres, as long as you have a decent income during the day.

[Gnome]

Just thought of another option. Our Canadian "CIA" called CSIS posted an ad in the Globe and Mail this past weekend. They are looking for Analysts for all regions of the world. If you have a good grasp of Czech and have travelled in the area, or some other language and region, you might consider this route. Again they are looking for MA's, but frankly there are opportunities for language experts with country experience throughout CSIS. They can't find enough qualified and reliable people these days. Who better than ESL/EFL teachers with worldly experience?