Job Discussion Forums

[Kanada_Goose]

Greetings All,

I'll start off with stating that I have enjoyed reading all the forum content..it has been very informative, and I appreciate the modesty of all contributors. I want to apologize in advance for my long post, but I seek some advice and honest opinion from the members here..

I am exploring the idea to work as an ESL teacher in Russia for 1 year. In all fairness, I will give you my short CV to see if (in your opinion) this is an achievable goal...(I'm looking for the 'gut check' reality..so don't hold back on your comments and opinions....I am hoping the best advice will come from the troops on the ground....!).

I am 43 yrs old. I have worked in the Law Enforcement community for 16 years. Prior to that, I was a youth worker for 6 years. I have some instructional experience, and teaching experience as it relates to development and recruit training of new officers. My communication skills and attributes are above average...I comment on this because in my profession, excellent listening skills are a requirement, as well as grammatically correct written and spoken english are a necessity. I work in a culturally diverse community, whereas, speaking english as a second language is very common for the members of the public I work with. (Hence the requirement for excellent listening skills..). I fully realize that none of these attributes will necessarily make me an exceptional teacher...I am hoping that they will at best be a marketable attribute and assist me in securing a position, as well as give me a slight advantage over a person with fewer life experiences.

I have travelled to Russia several times. My Ex fiancee was Russian. I have a rudimentary understanding of basic russian. Not enough for a conversation..but I can understand a little. I have spent approximately 2-3 months all total in country. (Moscow and a small city in Udmurtia). I am somewhat familiar with basic living expectations...but by no means would I consider myself an expert in living there. Do I require a CELTA..?..or can I get by on a TESL or TESOL ?. From my reading of the posts, CELTA is probably perferred, however the time requirements to obtain this credential is a little hard for me due to shift work.

I realize there are significant advantages to working for a 'McSchool'. I would prefer not to, but understand this may be my only option as a new starter to this job field. Do you think the possibility exists to work for one outside of the Moscow area..? or other language school. I would like to go to a semi big city where opportunities exist. (I have nothing against Moscow, but having been there, I would say the observations I have read from some of the forum contributors are bang on....Moscow can be a tough place to live and work for a newcomer...). AND...the Moscow Metro gives an entire new meaning to 'Commuter Traffic'.

I have a realistic expectation regarding income..I am certainly not seeking to be financially well off....I know at best that I will probably break even if I am fortunate. This experience is more for self interest rather than as a source of viable income. So I am asking you the members.....what are your thoughts ?. I promise I won't be offended..so please give me your 2 cents worth, I would really appreciate the critical feedback to assist me in making my decision. Thanks for taking the time to read this. I look forwaard to reading your replys.

Kanada_Goose

[coledavis]

Ok, you have developed communicative skills, which would help on CELTA/Trinity. As these are the best-recognised, and essential in many places, you really should make the time. As you have some feel for Russia which means you're unlikely to go home within a week, then yes, consider cities such as Voronezh, Ekaterinburg, Novosibirsk and Vladivostok (check out an atlas first). Your salary will be lower than in Moscow but you should get your own accommodation and you may enjoy it more.

[Linochka]

I agree with coledavis. It sounds like you're confident regarding your communication skills, so this can only be an asset in terms of getting a CELTA.

Re: Not wanting to work in Moscow, that's great and I don't blame you. But read up on the expat community size of wherever you choose; not knowing enough Russian to have a conversation, you might forget what your voice sounds like otherwise apart from when you're teaching It's great for immersion, but I imagine it can be frustrating and have inconveniences too. So make sure you choose a city along the lines of coledavis's suggestions, rather than places that verge on being towns (although cities like Ekaterinburg are hardly bustling international hubs, from what I gather). Look at the forums on expat.ru and other such sites to get a feel.

I am very much in the same boat as you, albeit I may know slightly more Russian. However, that is irrelevant: Being pre-intermediate isn't going to compensate for my lack of teaching experience! Thus, I will definitely start with a McSchool because I can't stomach the stress of arranging a job, accommodation and visa by myself. After a year I would then ask around in the hopes of finding something else.

However, I already have a CELTA. I got it because the only McSchools I would want to work for (Language Link and possibly BKC) require it. Others like Tom's House and English First claim to prefer it. If you've lurked on these forums as much as me, you will probably know that none of these schools have glowing reputations. However, I personally would only go for LL and BKC, as I've concluded they're probably the best of a bad lot. My attitude is: Well, the ones that don't need certs/experience may take anyone, but what does that say about them? So, I would try to make time to get a CELTA/Trinity if I were you, somehow. It's a good qualification to have, and would make you more flexible after you've served your time with a McSchool.

If anyone disagrees with me, please feel free to offer an alternative; maybe you can get lucky and find something better without needing a CELTA. I wish I could find something better than a McSchool myself, but I don't have the inside knowledge Not that Language Link have got back to me yet anyway....

[coledavis]

Good comments, Linochka, but I would suggest a couple of qualifiers relating to the differences between Mac and non-Mac schools. The school should always provide the invitation (if they are telling you to sort out a business visa for teaching, this is plain illegal) and you will always have to sort out the visa application yourself (i.e. trotting down to your local Russian consulate or hiring an agency to do it for you).

; these are true regardless of a school's Mac/non-Mac status. I think you will also find that many non-Mac schools will also sort out accommodation for you. I'm not sure, but I think it may even be a legal requirement when hiring foreigners. Every job I've had in eastern Europe has include accommodation hired by the employers; and although I do recommend Macschools for newbies, I've always worked for non-macs (I got some part-time experience in my home country before setting out).

Actually, I can say that there is a lot going on in Novosibirsk and in Akademgorodok, but I guess that's my personal taste.

[Sashadroogie]

I'd say go for the CELTA/Trinity option. These brands are well-known in Russia. Other generics might not be.

However, as far as I know, these are not really a stringent requirement by the schools. True, BKC, LL etc all say they require a CELTA specifically, but that is just bluster, as with so much else they state. They'll accept many equivalents. Indeed, plenty of teachers have been hired there with no cert at all worth mentioning, but who had a rather creative CV. We are not talking about quality establishments to begin with.

Yet, in terms of doing the job right, the other posters are bang on: the CELTA is worth it simply for gaining some idea of how to teach effective EFL lessons.

Good luck.

[maruss]

I would also add that avoiding Moscow is a good idea for many reasons,especially for anyone seeking to experience how life is for the majority of Russians.Needless to say,you are unlikely to earn much money from this adventure but as your motives are clearly not financial,then this is not a major issue for you.......but do bear in mind that Russia is a VERY foreign country and unless you have at least a working knowledge of the language for basic every day requirements you are likely to face problems,particularly in a smaller town where you may not encounter any other foreigners or anyone with whom you can have a meaningful conversation in English.How you cope with this will depend on you and it is something you should consider seriously when deciding where you go-it can range from merely challenging to downright depression and a feeling of isolation and loneliness.Whilst Russians can be very warm and hospitable people once you get to know them and they accept you,this is likely to take time and should not be taken for granted.If you have been there before,then I'm sure you will understand what I mean?

[Kanada_Goose]

Thanks Troops for all the great information !

I agree with Linochka and Maruss�.I am certainly not opposed to accepting a position in Moscow, wherever the job prospects are will determine where I land on my feet. However I do understand the concern of re-locating to a smaller area where the fear of isolation becomes a reality. I have visited small towns and cities and was a little taken back by the suspicious looks and whispering that went on if I was overheard speaking English. Despite my paranoia I never felt like a celebrity..more of an oddity�but there might be something to that !

Speaking of larger cities�is there anyone that could comment on some good locations that offer a very good job prospect (high demand), and possibly have an expat community ?. I have read some posts on Vladivostok, and would be interested in some other cities such as Novosibirsk and Volgograd. I would be interested in St Petersburg, but I am wondering if it is similar to Moscow..?. Is there anywhere I should avoid like the plague due to living conditions, crime, or other dangerous conditions such as terrorist activity..? I read on expat.ru that Rostov should be avoided�serious criminality issues.

Do I really need to get a CELTA ?....is it a must have ?. I appreciate the comments of Sashadroogie and Coledavis�I believe it is the best certification to obtain�but the requirements to obtain will be difficult for me. Cost is not an issue, time is�. I did read however that the CELTA is being offered as a blended format course with an online component and the practical being face to face�which might work for me. My understanding that the certificate does not indicate an online or otherwise. My concern is, I have read a few posts that an online certification amounts to nothing more than a big pile of poo when seeking to obtain a position, so I am a little leary of course. And I get why�.I suppose anyone can secure an online credential.

What are the best hiring periods�.? Are they fairly set to the September-January time frame, or does the possibility exist to secure employment throughout the year ?. Obviously, I want to try and coincide my leave of absence from work for the best possible time to obtain employment.

Thanks again for all the information�.it is very helpful. I can only imagine all the beers I will have to buy when I land in country !

Cheers !

Kanada_Goose

[Sashadroogie]

There is no hiring season as such, in Moscow at any rate. Can't speak for other locations. However, the summer period is usually very quiet, so I'd avoid coming over then. Other than that, language schools will hire year round, though September is of course the busiest.

Quals. Short answer is, no, the CELTA is not a must-have. It's more of a 'should-have'. The blended option, as far as I know, still leads to the same CELTA cert, so I can't see any problems there. However, do indeed steer well clear of other online certs. Waste of time and money.

Can't help with other locations. Moscow is really all I know, and is the centre of EFL activity too. However, I never really put too much stock in scare stories about other cities and criminality. Unless you are very, very unlucky, it will not affect you directly.

Good luck!

[maruss]

In many countries I've been to,visiting smaller towns seemed a good way to meet the locals in a more relaxed and friendly environment than in a larger city,but despite trying this in several places in Russia,I'm sorry to say that it did not produce the experiences I was hoping for.As the person who started this thread has commented,he felt more like an odd one out than a celebrity and speaking in a foreign language seemed to cause more suspicion than welcome curiosity.Whether it's all due to the attitude which prevailed in Soviet times about outsiders still influencing peoples behaviour or whether they were simply too stressed about their own daily problems to care about anyone else I don't know?It is well known that most people who live outside majors centres in Russia have to get by on meagre salaries and face scores of other daily problems due to poor services and facilities etc.
In all fairness,even the website of a major Mac School warns those contemplatingliving and working outside the capital that conditions are often basic and the infrastructure and buildings are dilapidated etc!

[cbrredrider1]

http://thetruthaboutrussianwomen.blogspot.com/2012/03/russian-women-versus-american-women.html

http://bkc-ih-moscow-podolsk.blogspot.com/2010/11/warning-wild-dogs-in-podolsk-russia.html

[cbrredrider1]

I had posted here before with some very scary web pages warning teachers not to work for BKC. I explain this in my updated blog. I have posted some positive things about working there. I will say the students I met were wonderful. Any other problems should just be considered part of the package, or a tax if you will for the luxury of getting an experience seldom get to have. See my links on the post just before this one or posted below. I have updated the links, the old links no longer exist.

http://thetruthaboutrussianwomen.blogspot.com/2012/03/russian-women-versus-american-women.html

http://bkc-ih-moscow-podolsk.blogspot.com/2010/11/warning-wild-dogs-in-podolsk-russia.html

[adey]

Ok so I read your posts but I have no idea why you fell out with BKC, care to illuminate?

[cbrredrider1]

BKC was a good place to work but the moment anything goes wrong they aren't willing to help you. During my third contract with them the Ru gov stopped the quota for work visas and BKC couldn't offer me a new one. They asked me to work their illegally until they got it sorted out. I chose not to knowing I would sacrifice my bonus pay, air fare refund and severeal months pay.

My problem was more with the small franchise in Podolsk. When I chose to not work there illegally they made my life hell. I had to get the Embassy involved and call BKC-IH in England. They tried to throw me out of my flat immediately and I was terrified. I already bought a ticket home for a later date. I had no money to spend on another. BKC Moscow did nothing to help. In fact they sided with the school and blacklisted me. After three great years several raises and good reviews I got tossed to the curb.

I changed my incredibly negative blog post only for the students in podolsk who I miss and love. I am sorry it had to end. The director of the school in podoslk is the reason for all the friction. It was his decision to make my life hell. They had to go through a lot of trouble just to be spiteful to me for leaving. I did the honorable thing and gave them 2 months notice. This is how they showed their appreciation.

I retracted my blog only because of the students. I hope this helps. If you want the full story I still have the postings in document form. I would be happy to email them to you.

[Mikalina]

Interesting links...

[cbrredrider1]

I guess I rushed that to publishing too fast. Thanks for the feedback.

I know my blog seems to have a dark ages tone to it but I base it on what I observe. Are you saying you don't see any problem with the decline in American ethics and what it's doing to younger generations?

Traditional usually refers to what we knew when we were growing up. Even though I am quite old, I understand the need for being progressive. But sometimes traditional is the way to go. Some people want change just for the sake of change. I only referred to one side effect of the movement that was negative, not the whole movement. I just think things went too far back in the 80' and 90's... that would be the 1980's and 90's.

I don't understand your comment about BKC not being my mommy. I didn't need any hand holding. I expected them to honor a contract. I lost about $5000 from that last contract because of their spiteful actions. What are you referring to with that comment?