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kev7161
Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 5880
Location: Suzhou, China
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 Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:46 am Post subject: |
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| Once again, I teach elementary ed. so hard to compare to college stories, but I had several students this past semester who simply didn't do their work. I give points for daily work along with test scores. Obviously those that don't listen or participate in class or don't hand in assignments are going to do more poorly on their tests and get much lower grades than others, and they did. Throughout the semester, I reported these apathetic kids to the Chinese head teacher and my immediate supervisor. Sure enough, when I did grades last week I had a whole range of grades from A+ to F, sadly too many D and F scores. But this is what I turned in. These kids are 4th graders! If they are already in these bad habits imagine what they will be like in high school and college. It seems to be a never-ending cycle, doesn't it? |
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MisterButtkins
Joined: 03 Oct 2009
Posts: 1221
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| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:49 am Post subject: |
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| Has anyone managed to get in on taking the bribes for their classes themselves? |
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roadwalker
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 1750
Location: Ch
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| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:43 am Post subject: |
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I think it must be more likely that the university will allow the regular matriculating student to fail (for a semester anyway, until they take the make up exam) than the special program students who pay much higher tuition. How much is officially charged to retake an exam? Free? 1000 yuan? How much unofficially?
I'm curious to know if any member/teacher  has any experience from the abroad portion of some of these programs where the student will finish presumably at a university in a western country. What's the reputation of the program in the one you are familiar with? What's the reputation of the Chinese students in that program? Do they have a perfect graduation rate, or a perfectly awful rate? I'd guess there is a lot of variance.
I just can't imagine the dozen or so students I didn't pass (for now) will even manage to find the class room if it means asking someone in English how to get there. |
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Lobster
Joined: 20 Jun 2006
Posts: 2040
Location: Somewhere under the Sea
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| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:39 am Post subject: |
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My experience in this program is that the students have a very good graduation rate. Those who would fail seem to drop out, which makes the success rate very high.
The students are a funny bunch. They are there because they haven't done well in the Chinese school system. As far as Chinese students go, they are rebellious, critical and individualistic. These qualities, which have doomed them in the native system, help them to excel in a western-style learning environment. In terms of English, they are all quite capable of holding a good conversation in English. They have placed highly in various academic competitions.
I can't comment on the local reputation of the program, but its graduates have all been accepted by major western universities. So I guess it's ok. I'm sad to hear that this program is being discontinued in some cities, but will go on in Beijing.
RED |
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Miles Smiles
Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1294
Location: Heebee Jeebee
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| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:56 am Post subject: |
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| MisterButtkins wrote: |
| Has anyone managed to get in on taking the bribes for their classes themselves? |
A student approached me after the bad news broke that half the class failed the final test and would fail for the term. He said that it would cost the parents money for them to repeat the class, and even more money if the parents bribed the school to raise the grades. I was fuming. This was the same kid who had complained earlier in the semester of the bullet-proof nature of some of the kids. They passed no matter what.
I asked him if he thought that bribery was a good thing. He said that everyone does it, so since it is the norm, it's okay.
I told the kids to bring the bribe money to me because I was the one who had to put up with the headache of telling the truth. (This was before I spoke to the FL department about the 50% failure rate). Nobody approached me, called me, or communicated with me about accepting a bribe. |
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Miles Smiles
Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1294
Location: Heebee Jeebee
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| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:03 am Post subject: |
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| creztor wrote: |
| Miles, that was a great story. However, did the students end up passing? It's a different story when the head of the department, who has the power to have you removed, calls and asks why Xiao Wang failed. Grade changing shouldn't happen, but it's systemic and rocking the boat will only make one's life harder. |
I am no longer at that school. The teacher who wanted the grades changed was also the school FAO! I managed to be released from my contract at mid-year. I was halfway through my second contract. There were a lot of other problems involved in working for this school for which the school was responsible (frequent late pay, FAO never answering emails, phone calls or responding to text messages, and much worse). |
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peewee1979
Joined: 30 Jun 2011
Posts: 167
Location: Once in China was enough. Burned and robbed by Delter and watching others get cheated was enough.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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| MisterButtkins wrote: |
| Has anyone managed to get in on taking the bribes for their classes themselves? |
Another teacher in this program confided in me that he was offered money and sex (from a female student) in exchange for passing grades.
My personal stance on this is I tell the students I have a pretty young girlfriend and as far as money goes I don't think I would take it. |
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Miles Smiles
Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1294
Location: Heebee Jeebee
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| Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| creztor wrote: |
| Miles, that was a great story. However, did the students end up passing? It's a different story when the head of the department, who has the power to have you removed, calls and asks why Xiao Wang failed. Grade changing shouldn't happen, but it's systemic and rocking the boat will only make one's life harder. |
I am sure that they passed--- with high grades. I am also sure that somebody in the department "adjusted" some of the higher grades downwardly. It happened to a kid last year. I tried and tried for a whole term to get the kid's grade changed. I don't know if I succeeded.
When I run into problems like this, I play the "different culture" card. I tell them that's how it's done in the west and apologize for not being Chinese. I tell them that I just show the results; I don't create the results. |
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creztor
Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 476
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:23 am Post subject: |
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Miles, thanks for the followup information.
It's not worth fretting over. We're far too easy to replace, so for me it means just do what they want and get paid. |
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Miles Smiles
Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1294
Location: Heebee Jeebee
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:02 am Post subject: |
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| creztor wrote: |
Miles, thanks for the followup information.
It's not worth fretting over. We're far too easy to replace, so for me it means just do what they want and get paid. |
I agree, but if the department had insisted upon my assigning grades for the students in question, I would have asked for criteria and /or assigned the lowest possible grade for passing.
Getting paid at that school was a whole 'nother issue. |
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Guerciotti
Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Posts: 842
Location: In a sleazy bar killing all the bad guys.
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:22 am Post subject: |
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| creztor wrote: |
| We're far too easy to replace, so for me it means just do what they want and get paid. |
For what it's worth, I'm not at all convinced we are easy to replace. Maybe in certain cities but not everywhere.
My grades matter a little, I guess. CTs and admin tell me my grades don't matter but the students work for grades so they may earn a scholarship or have a decent record for graduate school.
No one changes my grades. At least not yet. No bribe offers so far. |
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Miles Smiles
Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1294
Location: Heebee Jeebee
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| Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:21 am Post subject: |
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| Guerciotti wrote: |
| creztor wrote: |
| We're far too easy to replace, so for me it means just do what they want and get paid. |
For what it's worth, I'm not at all convinced we are easy to replace. Maybe in certain cities but not everywhere.
My grades matter a little, I guess. CTs and admin tell me my grades don't matter but the students work for grades so they may earn a scholarship or have a decent record for graduate school.
No one changes my grades. At least not yet. No bribe offers so far. |
GOOD teachers are not easily replaced in many cities, especially if the city itself is thoroughly charmless.
I don't think that you can know if your grades are changed unless it's a drastic downward change and the student asks you about it.
I've taught at a couple of schools where I doubted that the grades counted, but when I began the term grading liberally and rewarding creativity in their writing and in their speech, a lot of the kids realized that it was the first time that they had ever gotten a decent grade in English, and they fought to maintain that high grade. Even though my grading criteria became more discriminating, almost all of the students put forth the effort to keep their grades high. If the school didn't value the kids' grades, the kids did. That all that matters to me. |
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zootown
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 310
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:00 am Post subject: |
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Not restricted to Chinese airlines tho.
Didn't a KLM pilot do that in the Canaries a few years back?
2x747s totaled with a few hundred passengers.
Where I can I use Dragon (admittedly only from/to the HK hub).
Nice - as in 'reassuring' - to hear a Brit, Kiwi or Aussie voice from the flight deck.
Sorry getting off the topic here.
I guess my overall attitude to grade changing is ignore it. There will be a genuine teaching/learning exchange only with a max of 10 students in any one class. I know it, the kids know it and I'll settle for that. |
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