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kev7161
Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Posts: 5880
Location: Suzhou, China
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 Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:30 am Post subject: Chinese applications to U.S. schools skyrocket |
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This is not new news for many of us, but still an interesting read:
http://behindthewall.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/01/11/9679479-chinese-applications-to-us-schools-skyrocket
A snippet:
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Moreover, at the graduate level, Chinese students aren�t competing against American students for a seat in the classroom, according to Blumenthal. �There still aren�t enough Americans in the pipeline wanting to get graduate training in the fields of science, technology, engineering, and math,� she said.
But detractors note other challenges have surfaced as a result of so many Chinese students going to U.S. schools. Among them is whether some applicants from the mainland are cheating their way into admissions by falsifying their academic records or achievements. |
(bold mine) -- cheating? in China? nah! that never happens, right?  |
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Guerciotti
Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Posts: 842
Location: In a sleazy bar killing all the bad guys.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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My gosh, signs of job security for me. I haven't had that since I delivered pizza, and that was a long time ago.
Oh yea, and that thing about cheating. |
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igorG
Joined: 10 Aug 2010
Posts: 1473
Location: asia
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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So, our work that we have done on mainland is finally paying off. I only wish i were on a commission rather than a monthly salary, and that not only by the locals but also by the overseas institutions that accept my hard work as well as the hard work of my local directors so seriously.
Out of the article, three things have caught my eye.
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| "Foreign students spend about $21 billion a year in the U.S. in tuition and living expenses for them and their families,� said Charles Bennett, |
This is a huge amount of money, which I believe is even larger than that above. And, there are expenses that may not be included in.
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| One consulting company in Beijing that works U.S. universities, Zinch China, says 90 percent of Chinese undergraduates submit false recommendation letters for their U.S. college applications and that 70 percent enlist someone else to write their essays. |
What is interesting here is that a business on mainland China would actually compromise itself to such an extent and such generalizations. I don�t doubt the falsified letters or records although I suspect this company wouldn�t blow its horns if it were dependant on business from smaller cities in the country.
In fact, the claims of Zinch China go way beyond the forged recommendation letters, or whomever's essays. They just do not dare to say it and honestly i'd be scared to spell it out too.
Then, the report follows with a lack of integrity from across the Ocean too.
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| The dishonesty works the other way, too. A growing number of �education brokers,� who work on behalf of U.S. institutions to solicit Chinese students, have led to misrepresentations and predatory fees, according to a revealing report from Bloomberg News. |
This is corruptness at all levels, and it most likely crosses the border lines of the legal systems of the countries. The numbers and behavior of the accommodating American institutions suggest that the USA is in a rat race for the status of its higher education with the rest of the world. If they win or lose once they�ll have printed zillions of undergraduate or postgraduate degrees is the question.
In the end, countries� economies depend on how much their administration and businesses are willing to bend over and perhaps that�s why the Brits, in the educational sector, are struggling now. I suppose that the worth of any higher educational degree will be dictated by how many successful grads of the schools will have found opportunities of their live time. However, such stats will have been more difficult once the foreign students return to their homelands for whatever work they�ll assume. |
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Lobster
Joined: 20 Jun 2006
Posts: 2040
Location: Somewhere under the Sea
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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Yes. It seems as western institutes of higher learning feel the crunch in terms of cash and dropping local enrollment, they are looking elsewhere. If students can't meet the traditional standards set by the institution, they become more "accommodating". Of course in the long run, their reputations will be tarnished and graduates will not have the skills or knowledge required to raise the standards of their professions. Perhaps in time, the western institutions will be about as poor as their Chinese counterparts and start pulling the no-fail, dumbed-down hijinx seen here.
RED |
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The Great Wall of Whiner
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 4946
Location: Blabbing
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Lobster wrote: |
| Perhaps in time, the western institutions will be about as poor as their Chinese counterparts and start pulling the no-fail, dumbed-down hijinx seen here. |
I can think of 10 reasons off the top of my head why that would never happen in the West. |
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Lobster
Joined: 20 Jun 2006
Posts: 2040
Location: Somewhere under the Sea
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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It's already starting to happen.
RED |
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slapntickle
Joined: 07 Sep 2010
Posts: 270
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Lobster wrote: |
Yes. It seems as western institutes of higher learning feel the crunch in terms of cash and dropping local enrollment, they are looking elsewhere. If students can't meet the traditional standards set by the institution, they become more "accommodating". Of course in the long run, their reputations will be tarnished and graduates will not have the skills or knowledge required to raise the standards of their professions. Perhaps in time, the western institutions will be about as poor as their Chinese counterparts and start pulling the no-fail, dumbed-down hijinx seen here.
RED |
This is spot on Lobster. Because many Western schools are moving to a for-profit model of education, the perception out there is that schools are dumbing down standards to accommodate those students who don't meet the grade. Let me give you two examples from the last week. First, I met an Indian businessman based in London who told me that he was sending his son to a good school in Delhi because he didn't want him going to a British university where standards are questionable. He felt that British universities will be "finished in 2 or 3 years". Secondly, I met an ex-Thai student of mine who had just graduated from a London university. I asked her if she'd got her Masters and she replied: "Yes, of course. Do you think I'd fail?" I replied that it could have happened, but she countered by arguing that any idiot could graduate from a British university. "All you need to do is pay the money and you get the certificate. British universities are crap!"
Even in China, students would prefer to attend a prestigious Chinese university than go overseas for their education. The feeling is that the better Chinese universities have standards and that the degree awarded by those institutions will have greater market value. I think that as the perception of increased standards and greater academic excellence shifts from West to East, they'll be a corresponding shift of money and expertise, which will lead to greater perceptions of academic excellence. The overall trend seems to be a kind of see-saw effect, with the decline in the West leading to an incline in the East. Although this trend is not readily apparent to the casual observer right now, the future suggests that the East, along with other BRIC countries, will overtake the west not just economically, but educationally too. For example, the economy of Brazil has already overtaken the British economy, slipping into 6th place behind Britain's 7th - and falling - place.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/dec/26/brazil-overtakes-uk-economy |
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The Great Wall of Whiner
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 4946
Location: Blabbing
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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I have a very hard time believing that a Chinese degree from Fudan or Peking is more valuable or more difficult to acquire than a degree from Oxford or Harvard.
Chinese degrees and diplomas are not recognized in the West but Western degrees and diplomas are recognized in the East for a reason... a very good one.
It may change, but no time soon. |
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dean_a_jones
Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 1151
Location: Wuhan, China
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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| slapntickle wrote: |
| Even in China, students would prefer to attend a prestigious Chinese university than go overseas for their education. The feeling is that the better Chinese universities have standards and that the degree awarded by those institutions will have greater market value. |
Yeah, I have to agree with GWoW and call BS on this one. I think going to a top Chinese school rather than a low ranked UK (or elsewhere) university might, in terms of job opportunities, be better. But the idea that China has better academic standards is a pretty wild suggestion, either ignorant or intentionally provocative.
| Quote: |
| I think that as the perception of increased standards and greater academic excellence shifts from West to East, they'll be a corresponding shift of money and expertise, which will lead to greater perceptions of academic excellence. The overall trend seems to be a kind of see-saw effect, with the decline in the West leading to an incline in the East. |
I don't have a particular problem with seeing this shift, although "see-saw" seems apt considering its basic simplicity.
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Although this trend is not readily apparent to the casual observer right now, the future suggests that the East, along with other BRIC countries, will overtake the west not just economically, but educationally too. For example, the economy of Brazil has already overtaken the British economy, slipping into 6th place behind Britain's 7th - and falling - place.
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Hmm, no one questions the economic rise, but a better link, considering the paragraph, would have been an educational rather than economic example.
Also, throwing in "casual observer" does not an expert make. |
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slapntickle
Joined: 07 Sep 2010
Posts: 270
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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The questions of standards across universities is not a recent one in the UK. As far back as 2009, MPs issued a damning report which attacked "university leaders for failing to 'give a straightforward answer to the simple question of whether first class honours degrees achieved at different universities indicate the same or different intellectual standards'".
The report went on to say that it is "unacceptable" for higher education to receive �15bn in taxpayers' funding "but be unable to answer a straightforward question about the relative standards of the degrees of the students".
As an example, the report says that there was no clear answer to MPs' attempts to find the answer to whether an upper second history degree from Oxford University and Oxford Brookes were equivalent .
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/8178740.stm
So, if MPs, and the taxpaying public, along with the students who attend British universities cannot identify which degrees have more value in the British marketplace, you can be sure that in the future this debate will rage beyond the borders of Britain to other parts of the world. In the future, people really will be comparing the cost and value of getting a degree from say "Oxford or Harvard" with getting one from "Fudan or Peking". The point is that in a marketplace where there are so many players, many of them new players, it'll take some time for new perceptions to take hold. In other words, we don't really know how long the Oxbridge and Ivy League schools will stay on top in this new fluid league of players. One could draw an analogy with the football tables: One year it's up for one team, the next year it's relegation. Perhaps the universities that end up drawing the greatest number of students will be the ones that have the most money and the best PR firms. Who knows? Maybe Peking University will become the Manchester United of universities in the not too distant future? But one may ask: Where are the standards in all of this . . . ? |
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dean_a_jones
Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 1151
Location: Wuhan, China
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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| slapntickle wrote: |
The questions of standards across universities is not a recent one in the UK. As far back as 2009, MPs issued a damning report which attacked "university leaders for failing to 'give a straightforward answer to the simple question of whether first class honours degrees achieved at different universities indicate the same or different intellectual standards'".
The report went on to say that it is "unacceptable" for higher education to receive �15bn in taxpayers' funding "but be unable to answer a straightforward question about the relative standards of the degrees of the students".
As an example, the report says that there was no clear answer to MPs' attempts to find the answer to whether an upper second history degree from Oxford University and Oxford Brookes were equivalent . |
Ah, so ranked universities (which, now in the UK system can charge different amounts) should be exactly the same? A first from Oxford should be treated the same as a first from Fauxford? It is an interesting question, as hierarchy has always been an acceptable part of education, particularly western higher education.
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| So, if MPs, and the taxpaying public, along with the students who attend British universities cannot identify which degrees have more value in the British marketplace, you can be sure that in the future this debate will rage beyond the borders of Britain to other parts of the world. |
Am quite sure they don't have a problem identifying which degrees are most valuable in terms of the marketplace.
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| In the future, people really will be comparing the cost and value of getting a degree from say "Oxford or Harvard" with getting one from "Fudan or Peking". The point is that in a marketplace where there are so many players, many of them new players, it'll take some time for new perceptions to take hold. In other words, we don't really know how long the Oxbridge and Ivy League schools will stay on top in this new fluid league of players. |
Sure, it might change, assuming standards also do the same.
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| One could draw an analogy with the football tables: One year it's up for one team, the next year it's relegation. Perhaps the universities that end up drawing the greatest number of students will be the ones that have the most money and the best PR firms. Who knows? Maybe Peking University will become the Manchester United of universities in the not too distant future? But one may ask: Where are the standards in all of this . . . ? |
Are you a city fan or something? |
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slapntickle
Joined: 07 Sep 2010
Posts: 270
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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| dean_a_jones wrote: |
| Are you a city fan or something? |
No, I don't follow football much these days because the beautiful game has been destroyed by the corporations. Football used to be fun back in the old days, but now the games are predictable, there is very little competition in the top leagues and the players are bland. In fact, all this smacks of what's going on in our universities. You might wanna read this fine article by Jonathan Freedman from the Guardian. Here's a taster:
It's a newspaper convention that the front and back pages are a world apart, as if news and sport inhabit two different spheres with little to say to each other. Indeed, it used to be an article of faith that "sport and politics don't mix", with the former no more than a form of escapism from the latter. And yet the Occupy Wall Street and London Stock Exchange protests that led the weekend news bulletins might not be entirely unrelated to the Premier League results that closed them. For the current state of our football sheds a rather revealing light on the current state of both our politics and our economy. Or, as one sage of the sport puts it: "As ever, the national game reflects the nation's times."
What that reflection says is that Britain, or England, has become the home of a turbo-capitalism that leaves even the land of the let-it-rip free market � the United States � for dust. If capitalism is often described metaphorically as a race in which the richest always win, football has turned that metaphor into an all too literal reality.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/oct/18/premier-league-rampant-capitalism/print
Sure, football is a reflection of a nation's politics and economy, and also I might add its education too. |
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dean_a_jones
Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 1151
Location: Wuhan, China
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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The Great Wall of Whiner
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 4946
Location: Blabbing
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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| If you are worried about 'turbo capitalism', China may not be the place for you where capitalism is 'turbo turbo turbo'.... |
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choudoufu
Joined: 25 May 2010
Posts: 3325
Location: Mao-berry, PRC
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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| slapntickle wrote: |
Sure, football is a reflection of a nation's politics and economy, and also I might add its education too. |
football and basketball is one area where us shcools are dumbing down.
lotsa players spending six years at college graduating with degrees
in 'university studies.' |
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