Job Discussion Forums

[rap60]

My wife and I are teaching in a school. Because she has a masters, they took me as well, I have tesol cert and no experience, first posting. Is this unusual? They like us both and our 4 year old attends the kindergarten free of charge. We like the school enough but are unsure if we could get work elsewhere in China with the same conditions. Is it normal for a partner to get full residence/working permit because their partner has a masters. Has it been wrangled or is this some Chinese law. We don't know whether to advertise again for the Sept 2012 intake or be thankful for what we have, which we are, but we also like to be less rural, the travel to get anywhere is the bummer. Thoughts and info appreciated.

[dean_a_jones]

So you both have residency permits and FECs, sponsored by the school? If so, then that just means the school was happy to have you both and could sort you both out with the right paperwork (rather than your being bundled with a non-working partner visa). I assume you have at least a BA as well as your certificate? If so, and you both have some time working in China now, then there is no reason why you shouldn't be able to find a similar arrangement in a larger city (or at two different schools in the same city).

[zactherat]

You are right - it's unusual.
Usually, the husband would be the breadwinner and the wife would depend on him.

Sounds to me like your wife has the Z visa,
and you are a dependent. Rather than getting your own visa, you were simply added onto hers.

Much like your child's education, you too are dependent on your wife.


You could say: "she wears the trousers".

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

Unusual? Not at all.

The very fact that they are able to hire you without any experience speaks volumes. They do not care about her Master's at all. Is she white? does she speak English? These are the qualities that attract parents when deciding which school to put their kid in.

The usual descending order of preference for privately-funded schools in China are:

1. No physical deformities or disabilities

2. White

3. Native English speaker

4. American accent (southern drawl notwithstanding)

5. Age

6. Educational background

This means, for example, if you have a PhD in Early Childhood Education, are a native English speaker with an American accent BUT you are Asian-looking or black, you will be passed up by a a good-looking white person with only a diploma in accounting.

Some less-experienced folks may argue with me, some folks who speak not one iota of Chinese might argue with me, some folks who have been here only a couple of years could argue with me.... let them.

I now have my own school and know exactly first hand what parents are looking for, rightly or wrongly. I would hire you and your entire family in an instant because I see BLING BLING written all over you three.

Sorry mate, you were hired because it is in their best interest financially for them to do so. Foreign kid in their kindergarten? Bonus for them. The school will charge parents extra for kids to be in that class and your child is now making money for your school. Extra teacher? Bonus! They don't have to go around looking for another teacher which saves them on recruiting fees and other expenses. Now your entire family is making money for them. Well done (for your school that is)...

Believe me, your wife has a Master's; she easily could work in an international school and make more money than the three of you combined.... and probably less hours, too. And to boot, she could end up as the headmaster (headmistress)...

When my daughter is old enough for kindergarten, I will ask the school how much more they are planning to charge parents for their kids to be in my daughter's class, and I will ask for 50% or else simply go to another kindergarten. And of course, she will attend for free...

[Zero]

If you have a bachelor's, the situation should be easily replicable throughout the country.

If not, then some places may arrange a full-on working visa for you, too, but most probably can't. In that case you can be on a dependent visa and pick up part-time, or even full-time, hours illegally, though this carries risk.

[twilothunder]

GWOW speaks a lot of truth on this board

[rap60]

thanks everyone for your input, to clarify:
1) we are Australian
2) I have no BA just 21 years as Director of a company with on the job training teaching skills.
3) I have my own z visa residency permit, not a dependant relative visa, I am not dependant on my wife, though frankly I would have no issue being so.
4) our daughter is Chinese by birth and adopted but of course speaks fluent English and is having to learn Chinese all over again.
5) Apparently we ARE a good looking family to the Chinese (we had a family portrait done a few days ago and the studio is paying us to use the photo's in advertising)
6) So yes I guess we are a catch and GWOW, hit the nail on the head many times.
7) from some of the postings I guess most are saying we will find it difficult to find a similar position

as a a matter of interest how hard do you think we could push to get our salary upped if we sign for a second year bearing in mind the kids genuinely do love us and (forgive me if it sounds like boasting) we put a lot of work individually into making our classes interesting (other FT's at this school are known to play 45 minutes of rock music to their kids after a heavy weekend on the grog)

comments, of a pleasant, honest but constructive nature appreciated

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

Losing you both seems that it would be a hit for the school and I imagine them getting a lot more students as a result of you being there over the short and the long term. You need to nonchalantly find out how much each student is paying for their fees, and also how many students you and your wife collectively have. Then you have to make a sort of estimate as to the boss's overall costs of keeping you VS. hiring two new foreigners. If it is financially in the boss's best interest to keep you around for a second year with an increased salary, they will.

I have been at the same job more or less for the better part of a decade, and my boss keeps me around because it is economically feasible for him to do so. As soon as it becomes better for him to hire someone else, he will in a heartbeat. He actually decided to not re-sign me last year, because several years in a row of increases in salary/benefits was getting too much for him, but not a single foreigner who was to replace me was able to bear the school's teaching style and/or methods. In the end, no matter how much you are loved by the students, the school can and will replace you when you cost them too much. At the end of the day, they are in it for the money not to actually enrich anyone's kids.

I know how much the students pay in fees. I know how many students there are. I know what my boss's expenses are. And I know how much it would cost him to get a whole new foreigner. Plus, getting a new foreigner is always a gamble on the part of a school. Sometimes they have to go through several before they find "the right one". Like you said, teachers on the grog are not what they are hoping for in a teacher.

Schools want to know everything about the foreigners' lives and what makes them tick but they never want the foreigner to know anything about the school's mechanisms or what makes the school tick.

Get in the know and you will be halfway there.

Good luck.

[dean_a_jones]

GWoW is spot on, and wrote two excellent posts. I know you said in your first post that you wanted to perhaps move to a more exciting location. If you can tolerate where you are for a while longer, I would stay put and see what improvements you can manage in terms of your contract.

The lack of a BA and a school that employs you on the Z visa regardless of this fact is not unheard of, but is also pretty helpful in terms of your annual security when teaching. If you try for bigger places, you might need to forego this and work on a dependent (non-working) visa.

[bnej]

I don't think this is that unusual. It really depends on where the school is located and how easy it is for them to hire foreign teachers. If the school has lots of recruitment channels or offer an attractive pay package, they may not have so easily just accepted you to take on a teaching post.

Another reason they might've decided to just take you on is that the paperwork for getting 2 Z visas is considerably easier than for getting 1 Z visa and a spousal dependent visa. The spousal dependency visa requires more work on the government side, and often takes significantly longer to process. Plus they can just rent 1 apartment for the both of you rather than have to get 2 individual units for each of you.

As for your question about getting significant pay raises because the kids love you - if it's a public school, having the kids love you won't really do much. If it's a private school where the kids are renewing their tuition every so often because you guys are teaching, there's a good chance they'll give you a raise. However, you've gotta consider how much you bring in vs. how much you're asking for. Doesn't make sense to pay you an extra 2,000RMB/month if your class sizes are about the same as everyone else (particularly compared to said dudes who play rock music for the 45 minute class).

[diana83709]

My husband has a Juris Doctorate. I am TEFL certified and at the time of hire, had completed my junior year of university (Engl. Lit. major). We both were issued Z Visa's and my daughter (then age 14) had dependent visa under my husband.

We taught at the same high school for two years and it was a wonderful experience.

[Miles Smiles]

[diana83709]

The first year, we were each paid 4000 RMB per month. The second year increased to 8000 RMB each per month. We lived comfortably and travelled some. My husband is retired USAF and is currently teaching at university back home.