Job Discussion Forums

fluffyhamster · Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 6:50 am Post subject:

No offence mk, but you can search my posts if you're that interested, and not all of them are THAT flowery, incomprehensible or sooo off-topic. My main beef with these certs and the derived methodology is that despite the communicative label it is often anything but (input, tasks etc are vague, inauthentic, or functionally unconvincing, esp from the POV of conversation). And there are many things that are simply impossible to meaningfully teach without far more research, thinking and preparation than cert training allows, but which are indispensible in every variety of the language (e.g. article usage - or should the newbie just reach for the likes of Murphy and be done with it?).

JN · Joined: 17 Jan 2008 Posts: 214

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

JN · Joined: 17 Jan 2008 Posts: 214

Thanks, Spiral, for the answer. I have wondered how I can be less involved in my classes. Appointing a team leader sounds like a great idea. I'll have to try that.
I know I enjoyed my master's classes the best when we, as students, were given a topic or problem to discuss in small groups and then briefly presented it at the end of class. I noticed that the professor either sat by herself or joined each group for a few minutes.

fluffyhamster · Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 8:17 pm Post subject:

Hi JN. Spiral's advice is good if you've indeed been leading the class a little too much. I would however caution against your becoming less involved, as that may not in itself actually help the students engage more (even if there is a surface increase in student talking time). Perhaps what is needed is a different style of talk from you (and indeed them) and a more involving range of talking points or topics. It's hard to say though without knowing bit more about your lessons.

On the off chance that I'm on the right tracks, have you read any books on spoken discourse, such as three in the Cambridge LT Library, by Brown & Yule, Hatch, and Thornbury & Slade? (Arranged by date of publication and roughly increasing content). Might give you a few ideas or avenues to explore. I'd also suggest looking into lexical, lexicogrammatical, and phraseological approaches (if you haven't already), as they offer concrete material sooner rather than later, and without the need to expend undue effort in research. Lastly, there aren't that many books around on teaching one-to-one, and those there are may be quite old, but the advice in them can come in with small classes (in which you can go through each student in turn, or pick a different student each lesson to focus on while modelling a two-person conversation, before turning things over to the students plural to try out themselves in pairs while you monitor, or if need be partner the occasional uneven single student (but don't do the latter too much as the students may start eavesdropping, listening again more to you than to each other)). Spread yourself more throughout, within the class, as more a (just another) potential partner to each student than a teacher stuck at or limited to the front or sidelines. And remember that many students, although they may not always explicitly insist on it, would likely prefer to converse with or listen to a native speaker (at least at first) than a fellow non-native. Just my two cents.

JN · Joined: 17 Jan 2008 Posts: 214

Hi Fluffy,

Thanks for the reply. I have been working on teaching some vocab and grammar as chunks in many of my classes, but haven't recently looked into the lexical, etc. approaches. I haven't read any of the books you've mentioned and probably wouldn't have access to them now, unless of course the LT you mentioned after Cambridge means something I can find online.

With one group of students I did have a game they played to practice speaking and they enjoyed it. This particular group does like to talk with each other and they do so in English. Now maybe I will try to introduce more chunks of language for them to try in their conversations. If I remember correctly this would be more of a lexical approach.

I suppose this thread has really gotten away from the original topic of the CELTA, but I appreciate the input.

fluffyhamster · Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:10 am Post subject:

You're very welcome, JN! Smile

I don't think we're off-topic at all. The OP asked if the CELTA should point out research and developments. Lexical approaches if not discourse n conversation analysis are no doubt at least mentioned in passing during the course, but actual references (if any) to more detailed works probably vary from center to center and general (Harmer-like) title to title. Hence my reading suggestions, just to be on the safe side. But you clearly know something about such stuff already, presumably by dint of your MA.

The CLTL is a printed range, not sure how much of it is available online. I'm intending to write a reasonably in-depth review of the Thornbury & Slade quite soon, so maybe keep an eye out for that. Wink

To me the value of lexical stuff isn't so much the chunking or holophrase per se (though some phrases are indeed less analyzable than others) but the range of functions, contexts, (sub-)genres etc it can unearth or suggest - much more than in many a general textbook. (But even textbooks devoted to lexical phrases aren't always that convincing or useful - it's often better to e.g. simply browse dictionaries like the Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English and Cambridge Advanced Learner's, the latter of which contains a very useful Smart Thesaurus. Both are available freely online). Plenty of conversation and lesson seeds to be had!

Coolguy123 · Joined: 10 Apr 2013 Posts: 132

Out of curiosity, does anyone know if Cambridge offers more professional development tools after the CELTA is over? Are there materials available online or in print to help you study further on your own or review?

HLJHLJ · Joined: 06 Oct 2009 Posts: 1218 Location: Ecuador

They have a lot of stuff on their website
https://www.teachers.cambridgeesol.org

You can sign up for free webinars and things as well. Some of the material they offer is very good, some of it ... not so much. Be selective.

For print books they have a catalogue for books related to teaching and teacher training
http://www.cambridge.org/gb/elt/catalogue/subject/item382384/Cambridge-Teacher-Training-and-Development/?site_locale=en_GB

Coolguy123 · Joined: 10 Apr 2013 Posts: 132

Awsome thanks!

JN · Joined: 17 Jan 2008 Posts: 214

Hi Fluffy,

Sorry about my long absence. I just thought I'd comment on your post.
My MA did focus a lot on specific books and methods. I suppose what it really lacked was someone critiquing my lessons. That's what I really missed-the observations.
I'll keep an eye out for the Thornbury & Slade review and maybe eventually buy some of my own books. Thanks for the tip on the Smart Thesaurus.

fluffyhamster · Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 3:02 am Post subject:

JN · Joined: 17 Jan 2008 Posts: 214

Thanks for the link. I didn't see that part of the discussion. I suppose I am not missing anything by not taking the CELTA.
I am looking forward to being observed by my boss in the new year. It will be the 2nd time anyone has ever observed me in a class in the few years I've been teaching. I'm hoping this will be as helpful as the time a colleague observed me.