Job Discussion Forums

johnslat · Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 5:01 pm Post subject:

Dear Chancellor,
I see. So if there's nothing in the Constitution that allows it, it's forbidden.
And that, of course, would mean the so many other things, such as Social Security, income tax, the FDA, the FAA, the FCC, Dept of Education, Department of Agriculture, etc., are also all unconstitutional.
I guess we'll need a fairly drastic and thorough overhaul of the Federal Government in order to comply with your interpretation of the Constitution.
Regards,
John

Chancellor · Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 5:42 pm Post subject:

johnslat · Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 5:52 pm Post subject:

Dear Chancellor,

"Or we can follow the processes specifically identified in the Constitution and either amend the august document or replace it with a new one."

I very much doubt we will see either course adopted in the foreseeable future. And, seeing as so much of the federal government is, by your interpretation, already unconstitutional, I don't suppose adding the unconstitutional (by your view) decent health care to the already extremely long list will be too significant.

Regards,
John

Never Ceased To Be Amazed · Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:41 pm Post subject:

Or the several state governments could use their "reserved powers" and the feds can fund the several states to treat their denizens like humans. But, God forbid making affordable health care possible! Let's just keep shoveling it into Wall Street...or to the bozos who bought the six-bedroom with an ARM instead of the two-bedroom that was just beyond their means! Give us a break!

Do people out there still think that this failure just "happened"? Sure, just like when the stimulus checks started to arrive just as people were about to travel across America on their annual holidays! I'm not a "grassy knoll proponent", but a h*ll of a lot of coincidences had to coincide for the mess the US finds itself in.

But, then again, we can listen to the Cheney interview on CNN a few days ago and dream ourselves into the notion that this didn't start in the states, but rather...it's a would-wide phenomenon! Evil or Very Mad

NCTBA

Chancellor · Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:49 pm Post subject:

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

Interesting...I've lived in at least two modern, first-world countries which encourage and support the individual, but offer nationalized health care (the Netherlands and Canada).

I don't see any serious negative impact. I paid higher taxes in the States, as a self-employed entrepreneur, NOT including health care costs. My national+state income taxes equalled 58%.

I pay 30% in Netherlands, and paid about 42% in Canada.

Health care should fall under the category of public goods (like national defence and police services, and infrastructure). It works, and does not discourage individual endeavor - or research - at all. The health care services in both countries are cutting-edge.

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

Just found this on today's cnn website:

Traveling abroad for health care is a phenomenon known as medical tourism. Many do it to save money or to get medical care not approved in the United States. Internationally recognized hospitals in Thailand and Singapore can often perform orthopedic and heart procedures at a fraction of the cost. Mexico is a popular choice for dental care.

The estimated number of Americans seeking treatment overseas annually varies widely, but starts at a half-million people.

Must be a problem in the US system somewhere Shocked

Chancellor · Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:44 pm Post subject:

Chancellor · Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:48 pm Post subject:

johnslat · Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 11:24 pm Post subject:

Dear Chancellor,

"Aren't Canadians coming over here all the time to get MRIs?
Not really. In a study asking US and Canadian hospitals about Canadians coming to US hospitals from 1997-1998, 80% had seen fewer than 10 patients, and 95% of hospitals had seen 25 or fewer patients over the entire year. Extrapolating findings, the study found that 640 Canadians had come to the US for MRIs or CT scans; Canadian provinces averaged 80,000 MRIs during the same time period.

Won't heath care bankrupt us?
Health care coverage is already subsidized heavily by federal, state, and local taxes. In fact, fully 64% of health care spending is already from taxes. Employers would pay a small payroll tax, but this tax would be instead of paying health care premiums like most employers pay now. Most employers that currently offer health insurance would actually save money. Small businesses will no longer be at a disadvantage in obtaining good health coverage for their employees and thus competing for the best employees.
back to top

Current Health Care System

America has the best health care system in the world!
Only if you don't compare it to anything else. The US ranks 37th in a World Health Organization examination of the world's health care systems. Americans also live fewer years than people in other countries, and have higher infant mortality levels (more babies under the age of one die per year). And according to the Institute of Medicine, 18,000 die each year from having a lack of health insurance. And we've got 45 million people without health insurance, and the most expensive health care system and prescription drugs. The US does a good job with waiting times for elective surgeries, but doesn't do nearly as well as other countries in most measures of "best" or "quality," however you define it."

A national health service would have the efficiency of the Post Office, the bureaucracy of the IRS, and the compassion of the Army. You really want that?
Governments do some things better than others--so do corporations. Medicare is the most efficient health care system in the US, with administration costs about 20% of the average HMO's administration costs. And if you think there's no such thing as corporate bureaucracy, you've probably never had a problem with your HMO. Ask anyone who has. Any system is going to have some red tape. But it's a matter of having *one* system of red tape, or 50 different ones. And government's not all bad. Government has provided us with public libraries, the GI Bill, Social Security, police and fire protection, the Do-Not-Call list, emergency services, national parks... there's bad, sure, but that doesn't mean you can just ignore the good.

Great Britain/UK

Doesn't it take months to get in to see a doctor in England?
There are definitely concerns with the UK's health system. But those are for another website. England has what's called a "national health service"--true "socialized medicine." In England, the government employs doctors and owns hospitals. In single-payer, doctors and hospitals are still privately owned and run. It's a completely different system. Apples and oranges.

http://www.grahamazon.com/sp/other.php

Regards,
John

khmerhit · Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:03 am Post subject:

wow john long time no see--

this is heavy stuff--i wandered in here looking for jobs in northern quebec and what do i find but a serious politicks debate....

here in canada we have universal health care--its not ideal but everyone gets in the door for most types of treatment. it is undergoing changes too.

anyway you re all invited up here--the snow is melting --all grooviest

johnslat · Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:08 am Post subject:

Dear khmerhit,
Hey, good to see you back. Fortunately (knock on wood) I'm in good health, plus I have Veterans' medical should I get sick. So, I don't think I'll be heading up to Canada for any medical treatment right away. But my wife and I want to take a trip to Seattle and then to British Columbia sometime soon. Lovely country up there.
Regards,
John
P.S. Oh, I forgot - being 66, I also have Medicare, one of those unconstitutional thingies

veiledsentiments · Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 17644 Location: USA

Here's an addition to the information base that goes with both the original idea of the thread and the hijack.

For those of you returning to the US at an age where you don't plan to work, finding health insurance will be your major issue. (stay out until 65, if you can, so that you will be eligible for Medicare) I came back earlier due to problems with an elderly parent. I am basically pretty healthy and I have the state Blue Cross/Blue Shield. There is no coverage for glasses or dental work. My premium is $435 a month with a $2500 deductible and co-pays on top of that. Most medications are covered at about 25%.

Oh... and those of you who decide to have no insurance... I had an outpatient procedure last year... in by 10:00 in the morning, out by 6:00. The total bill was $26,600.

Our system totally sucks...

VS

jillford64 · Joined: 15 Feb 2006 Posts: 397 Location: Sin City