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VietCanada
Joined: 30 Nov 2010
Posts: 590
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 Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Sashadroogie wrote: |
I am not a 'pusher' of Celta, sorry.
Those who fail the Celta feel it is a scam? Hardly surprising.
Celta is not a job placement agency. Anyone who does the slightest bit of research should be able to see that. |
That's clearly disingenuous if that's what you claim to have gotten from reading my post.
The rest is just more sales pitch. Wow. I expected more.
Tell me, is it "We're open from 10 to 11." or "We open from 10 to 11."
EDIT: If you make money from being a CELTA or DELTA examiner or in any other way, shape or form, in any connection whatsoever with those programs then by any professional standard you should say so in any post in which you recommend that someone take those courses or even comment on the programs.
None of you do that. Is that honest or ethical? To not do so demeans this board and the programs you push. |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Stop telling people that a CELTA guarantees good money. It's not even a tiny part of the picture in SE Asia. That's the scam I see here on this board. Europe yeah, I believe that. SE Asia, the middle east and parts of N. Africa? No. Absolutely no. Stop claiming that CELTA has any relevance to an entry level position outside of Europe. That's pure BS. Quite frankly I believe any degree holder with sufficient corporate experience could get hired in Europe. |
I don't recall anyone ever saying that a CELTA guarantees good money. Can you copy and paste that, along with the poster's forum name?
And you are absolutely incorrect that 'any degree holder with sufficient corporate experience could get hired in Europe.' Try it  |
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VietCanada
Joined: 30 Nov 2010
Posts: 590
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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| spiral78 wrote: |
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| Stop telling people that a CELTA guarantees good money. It's not even a tiny part of the picture in SE Asia. That's the scam I see here on this board. Europe yeah, I believe that. SE Asia, the middle east and parts of N. Africa? No. Absolutely no. Stop claiming that CELTA has any relevance to an entry level position outside of Europe. That's pure BS. Quite frankly I believe any degree holder with sufficient corporate experience could get hired in Europe. |
I don't recall anyone ever saying that a CELTA guarantees good money. Can you copy and paste that, along with the poster's forum name?
And you are absolutely incorrect that 'any degree holder with sufficient corporate experience could get hired in Europe.' Try it |
I did about 6 years ago. My 15 years of running my own import/export/ retail/wholesale outlet on a busy street in Canada's biggest city got me a few offers. I declined because I made much more in Korea for much less effort than is required to live and work in Europe.
As for your other remark, yes I am certainly used to being lead on tangents to discredit the only point I'm trying to make here. (Transparency- reveal if you make money or have made money in any way from people paying for that program. That includes taking the course and getting a job.). Please explain to me how paying as much as $5000 to take that Teaching Adults program in any way benefits you in getting a job teaching children in SE Asia or getting a job in the middle east, north Africa or any other country that requires an actual teaching certification and teaching experience from your own country.
Then we can talk.
EDIT: People aren't stupid. They are perfectly capable of fact checking on their own. |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I did about 6 years ago. My 15 years of running my own import/export/ retail/wholesale outlet on a busy street in Canada's biggest city got me a few offers. I declined because I made much more in Korea for much less effort than is required to live and work in Europe. |
Nobody doubts that a few people without CELTA/equivalent get basic job offers in Europe. I know a couple myself. I object to the generalization that 'ANY degree holder with sufficient corporate experience can get hired in Europe.' I've been here 17 years. It's not true.
| Quote: |
| Please explain to me how paying as much as $5000 to take that Teaching Adults program in any way benefits you in getting a job teaching children in SE Asia or getting a job in the middle east, north Africa or any other country that requires an actual teaching certification and teaching experience from your own country. |
Where did I (or anyone else) claim this?
As for my personal connection to CELTA/other entry level training program, I worked for training programs back over a decade ago, and I have friends and contacts who still do. Personally not for me; it's like a Ground Hog Day repeated 30 days wash-and-rinse. However, having worked with both trainers and cert holders for a very long time, I have a good knowledge of the programs and their value.
I have been teaching pedagogy for content teachers now for some years, but they are not EFL/ESL instructors. |
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VietCanada
Joined: 30 Nov 2010
Posts: 590
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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| spiral78 wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I did about 6 years ago. My 15 years of running my own import/export/ retail/wholesale outlet on a busy street in Canada's biggest city got me a few offers. I declined because I made much more in Korea for much less effort than is required to live and work in Europe. |
Nobody doubts that a few people without CELTA/equivalent get basic job offers in Europe. I know a couple myself. I object to the generalization that 'ANY degree holder with sufficient corporate experience can get hired in Europe.' I've been here 17 years. It's not true.
| Quote: |
| Please explain to me how paying as much as $5000 to take that Teaching Adults program in any way benefits you in getting a job teaching children in SE Asia or getting a job in the middle east, north Africa or any other country that requires an actual teaching certification and teaching experience from your own country. |
Where did I (or anyone else) claim this?
As for my personal connection to CELTA/other entry level training program, I worked for training programs back over a decade ago, and I have friends and contacts who still do. Personally not for me; it's like a Ground Hog Day repeated 30 days wash-and-rinse. However, having worked with both trainers and cert holders for a very long time, I have a good knowledge of the programs and their value.
I have been teaching pedagogy for content teachers now for some years, but they are not EFL/ESL instructors. |
Who said that? I didn't. More sales.
I said that any claim that paying for a CELTA outside of Europe is necessary or even needed for a job is absolutely untrue. |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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Nothing disingenuous at all in what I wrote. Why would you say that? You, and the viewpoint you represent, are simply mistaken. Your posts strongly give the impression that Celta is a scam course. This is simply not the case.
As for stating if we are trainers etc., this could reduce anonymity, and so it is not something I'd expect other posters to do. I do not see anything unethical in that. |
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VietCanada
Joined: 30 Nov 2010
Posts: 590
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Sashadroogie wrote: |
Nothing disingenuous at all in what I wrote. Why would you say that? You, and the viewpoint you represent, are simply mistaken. Your posts strongly give the impression that Celta is a scam course. This is simply not the case.
As for stating if we are trainers etc., this could reduce anonymity, and so it is not something I'd expect other posters to do. I do not see anything unethical in that. |
You are absolutely and demonstrably wrong on both counts.
You have stated that you are or have been a tester. I have never proposed what you are claiming I have.
I have quite clearly stated that I believe the CELTA or DELTA to be beneficial to obtaining work in Europe. I have clearly stated that I believe the CELTA or DELTA to be legitimate and a legitimate pathway towards professional development. Even in Vietnam. It's certainly beneficial if not a solid requisite to teaching adults. It is what it is. It is not for teaching children which is the majority of work in SE Asia, it is neither legally nor otherwise required to teach anywhere in the world that I am aware of perhaps as a job prerequisite (not a legal requirement for a work permit) in Europe and even that is somewhat questionable under very particular circumstances.
More salesmanship.
More salesmanship. |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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Look back at the phrasing of your posts and honestly say you think other readers would not infer that Celta is a scam. The way you have stated it is quite careless, and needed clarifying.
As for Celta tutors declaring their identity, this is not a requirement of the forum. Why should it be? And, do you really think Celta tutors promote their courses on boards such as these? No need for salesmanship whatsoever.
I must say, your point of view is quite out there. Not sure where it is coming from. |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Being a tester is not the same as being a course tutor, by the way. There are oodles more examiners and testers in any given region than Celta course tutors. Easier to identify. Some forum posters don't mind that. Some do. It is their decision. No ethical conflict there. None. |
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VietCanada
Joined: 30 Nov 2010
Posts: 590
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Sashadroogie wrote: |
Look back at the phrasing of your posts and honestly say you think other readers would not infer that Celta is a scam. The way you have stated it is quite careless, and needed clarifying.
As for Celta tutors declaring their identity, this is not a requirement of the forum. Why should it be? And, do you really think Celta tutors promote their courses on boards such as these? No need for salesmanship whatsoever.
I must say, your point of view is quite out there. Not sure where it is coming from. |
I can honestly say that no-one would consider CELTA or DELTA a scam by my posts. Especially since I have posted replies similar to the above at least three times. Posts where I clearly state CELTA or DELTA is not a scam and what I feel it is good for. All in reply to your posts in particular I believe. You are obtuse.
I stand to benefit from someone purchasing a product. I go online to encourage people to purchase that product. That is unethical in any context. Don't post if you think people could figure out who you are. That is ethical. You're argument is disingenuous at best blatantly dishonest at worst. There is no upside for you.
If your product is useful people will pay for it. If not they won't. If you come across as deceptive they won't.
More salesmanship.
Give it up. You jumped the shark a year ago. It's seriously embarrassing. Seriously.
You're hurting two brands now.
Poor salesmanship.
Last edited by VietCanada on Tue Apr 14, 2015 6:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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VietCanada
Joined: 30 Nov 2010
Posts: 590
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Sashadroogie wrote: |
| Being a tester is not the same as being a course tutor, by the way. There are oodles more examiners and testers in any given region than Celta course tutors. Easier to identify. Some forum posters don't mind that. Some do. It is their decision. No ethical conflict there. None. |
I agree that we shouldn't reveal ourselves as a matter of principle. I disagree that we should use that principle for our own financial benefit on a prestigious board such as this.
How does- "I might make money if you pay for a CELTA course" reveal your identity?
More salesmanship. |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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Hehehehe. Yes, Sasha in Russia stands to benefit every time someone takes a CELTA. We should all be very worried about this  |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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Are you sure you are using 'disingenuous' correctly? I'm not pretending not to know anything.
As for embarrassing : ) I don't think I'll be losing any sleep over your comments, whatever you might be attempting to imply. Jump the shark? Such a worn-out pop culture phrase. A year ago?
I'm not pushing any products or services from Cambridge. Neither am I attacking them out of ignorance. I am not ascribing blame to Cambridge for any other organisations' supposed dishonesty. And that is very much what your previous posts seemed to suggest quite strongly indeed. |
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VietCanada
Joined: 30 Nov 2010
Posts: 590
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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| spiral78 wrote: |
| Hehehehe. Yes, Sasha in Russia stands to benefit every time someone takes a CELTA. We should all be very worried about this |
I didn't say that. Nor did I imply it
You boys are really sad.
Find another street corner to peddle your goods.
Last edited by VietCanada on Tue Apr 14, 2015 6:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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VietCanada
Joined: 30 Nov 2010
Posts: 590
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Sashadroogie wrote: |
Are you sure you are using 'disingenuous' correctly? I'm not pretending not to know anything.
As for embarrassing : ) I don't think I'll be losing any sleep over your comments, whatever you might be attempting to imply. Jump the shark? Such a worn-out pop culture phrase. A year ago?
I'm not pushing any products or services from Cambridge. Neither am I attacking them out of ignorance. I am not ascribing blame to Cambridge for any other organisations' supposed dishonesty. And that is very much what your previous posts seemed to suggest quite strongly indeed. |
You need to sober up. This post makes no sense whatsoever. Hic.
I don't blame you for anything other than promoting a product that you do or have made money on to a market that doesn't use it.
You're pretty thick for such an obviously intelligent poster. |
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