Job Discussion Forums

ZPlatypus · Joined: 19 Jul 2009 Posts: 11

I would think the opportunity for learning Chinese (as opposed to Koren or Thai, for example) would be amajor plus for Taiwan.

razorhideki · Joined: 19 Jan 2010 Posts: 78

To Rooster: Yeesh...Y180K/mo. is a great salary in Japan?! Wow!

Not to get too off topic...and I don't think we are, since we're comparing Taiwan/Japan contract terms(and I might add that some Taiwan PS contracts offer airfare, housing, competitive salaries, etc.), I have to state yet again: there is no Japan state-mandated "guaranteed monthly income"! Just because you say it's so it "don't make it so". If you insist otherwise, I simply ask you: source?

So, nonetheless, let's say you get that wonderful $2K/mo. Yowzells! You're going to save dough on that!? What a lifestyle! But, OK, eat that natto & rice! Ride that bicycle!

Look, mate, I'm trying to be on YOUR side. If you don't believe me, go to the Japan Forum and tell your theory to the Japan vets...see what they'll say.
By your own admission, you've never lived/worked in Japan. I have(5 yrs.) and have lived in Korea for three(and contracts in SK are no screaming hell these days). So let me throw down this gauntlet: take a contract in Japan for 250K/mo., or less, and then AFTER 6 mos., come back here and tell us all how great things are. Sound fair? I think so....

Rooster_2006 · Joined: 24 Sep 2007 Posts: 984

creztor · Joined: 30 Dec 2009 Posts: 476

Seriously, I don't know what it is with forums. We are all living away from our respective countries but for some reason we seem to manage to get into a "whose schlong" is bigger competition. There is another famous TW forum which is full of nothing but hate. I am sure this post will get deleted but this is why I post very rarely and don't post comments as often as I should. I am constantly amazed at just how hostile and angry we can be towards each other when in fact we should be doing the complete opposite. Delete away/flame me away.

razorhideki · Joined: 19 Jan 2010 Posts: 78

creztor: It's been noted for many years how these forums turn into ''p***ing contests" and it's indeed unfortunate that it happens(have you ever been at the Korea Forums? Yeeeesh!). For my part, though, I'm just sick & tired of BS circulating from those WITHOUT direct experience telling all & sundry "how it is". Case in point: a poster who's never lived/worked in Japan asserting how saving money there, on Y180K/mo., is no problem as long as you live "frugally." Frugally indeed!

Rooster: this is for you

http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?p=839191&highlight=#839191

Maybe you can hook up with shiggy after you've both been there for 6 mos. And , YES, it's about *beep* time that posters like you do your thing in Japan, for 180K/mo., and then come back to Dave's to tell the naysayers how "wrong" we were. That gaunlet has been thrown on the ground many times over the years(perhaps most notably by Glenski, who posts mostly on the Japan Forum)and yet NOT ONE poster has ever picked up that glove. Funny, huh?

So do your thing, spend your year in Japan watching Japanese "variety" shows(assuming you even have a TV)while munching that natto & rice. Fill your boots....

And thanks for your tip about Taiwan PS job qualifications Rolling Eyes

.I said Taiwan jobs with better benefits & pay are out there(true)...didn't say every Tom, Dick & Harry EFLer was eligible to apply. Not only Taiwan, but in several E. Asian locales(e.g. HK) you must have a teaching cert. from your home country in order to teach in the public system. Not that it's germane to the discussion, but since you asked-yes, I have a home country teaching cert.

And can you clarify: Is 180K enough to live on & save money or...is it for "chumps on working holiday visas"? Very Happy

Shimokitazawa · Joined: 16 Aug 2009 Posts: 458 Location: Saigon, Vietnam

creztor · Joined: 30 Dec 2009 Posts: 476

razorhideki, my post wasn't directed at you, which is good that you didn't take it that way. You are completely right about the forums and it is a pity. We could achieve so much more together than how forums currently run.

Rooster_2006 · Joined: 24 Sep 2007 Posts: 984

I see I'm not going to convince anyone here.

All I can say is that we clearly come from different worlds.

In my world, a single room (not an apartment) is acceptable living, basic food is okay (home cooking), and I've never owned a car or motorcycle. I've never even had a driver's license, since a car would be way out of my budget. Therefore, the kind of lifestyle I'm talking about for saving a small amount of money even on 180K would be acceptable for me -- it's the same lifestyle I've always had.

However, for the average westerner who is accustomed to an extremely high standard of living (own apartment, car, regular restaurant meals), a single room, a bicycle, and basic food would *NOT* be acceptable, and therefore 180K wouldn't cut it, nor would 250K.

I guess that's the difference between me and you guys. -- we're used to two fundamentally different standards of living, one of which requires 250K+ and one of which could be fully satisfied on 180K. You guys would probably call that "poverty."

I'm sure that if I said these things I'm saying right now on the Filipino/Indonesian Laborer's Cafe, they'd all agree that 180K was a good salary, just fine for saving. However, I'm on Dave's ESL Cafe.

I'm not going to post on this thread after this, since I'm not going to convince anyone, and that's fine. It doesn't affect how I'm actually going to go and live my life.

In fact, if more people think like you guys, it's probably for the better. It'll drive the wages up instead of down. I guess the effect could be desirable even if I disagree with your logic.

JZer · Joined: 16 Jan 2005 Posts: 3898 Location: Pittsburgh

razorhideki · Joined: 19 Jan 2010 Posts: 78

JZer: Hmm...I don't recall ever posting I was looking for a PS gig in Taiwan. Rooster said there are few good gigs left in Taiwan & I just replied that, according to ads, there are relatively good contract offers for PS jobs in Taiwan. If one doesn't have the qualifications for those jobs, well, life's a beach, ain't it?

Rooster: You're right...we do indeed come from "different worlds." Your world is "I've never lived in Japan so therefore I'm going to ignore the advice of a swack of Japan vets as to how bloody expensive it is to live there."

Let's play it your way: you get that $2K/mo. gig and you're happy with a single room, shared bath, etc. You sit in that room night after night and you save $500/mo.(not bloody likely but I'm trying to humour you here, mate). The question then must ... MUST...emerge: Why, of all countries on earth, would one choose JAPAN for that kind of lifestyle??!! No, I'm not talking about being a boozer/partier. Nor a Japanophile fanatic who has to visit every temple, shrine, garden and castle, famous or obscure. No, I'm just talking about LIFE in Japan, mate. If you're going to live like a hermit, why not go back to Korea and live in the smallest Dogpatch you can find?

As for your assertion that it's guys like you who are going to drive up wages Laughing

then this is how you assess the thought process of the Japanese EFL employer:

"Well! I still get contracts! My clients are still happy! And I only have to offer 180K/mo.(no airfare, housing allowance, etc.) to get tons of barbarians to apply! Ha!"

Same employer, suddenly glum:" Well, I guess I'll have to offer 260K/mo., paid airfare, no key money accomodation, nat. health ins., etc."

Ye Gods....

JZer · Joined: 16 Jan 2005 Posts: 3898 Location: Pittsburgh

creztor · Joined: 30 Dec 2009 Posts: 476

Then the same logic would apply that you can also make 250,000 Yen in China and since the cost of living is much lower, plus free housing, you save more Smile

Maybe people are interested in other countries? There's more to life than just money.

razorhideki · Joined: 19 Jan 2010 Posts: 78

creztor: Exactly! Rooster didn't exactly indicate that he was "interested" in Japan. Thus my point: why go to such a country(with a myriad of delights)just to "sit around" and hope(good luck!) to save money?!

JZer · Joined: 16 Jan 2005 Posts: 3898 Location: Pittsburgh

creztor · Joined: 30 Dec 2009 Posts: 476

Yes, but remember, you get free housing in China, this isn't something you get in Taiwan and it is something that was brought up frequently in previous threads about the discussion of China vs Taiwan. Even if the cost of living was identical (the differences in local wages between Taiwan and China show that China is cheaper to live in, albeit only by very little), you still get free housing in China so why stay in Taiwan when you can get the exact same deal in China but with free housing? It is the same logic as you can earn 250k in Taiwan so why go to Japan? Damn, why are we even in Asia if it's all about the money? South Korea pays more and why not get your MA and then hit up the Middle East for some good oil teaching money? There's more to life than money. Like Rooster, I think that'll do it for me in this thread. We're achieving nothing. Peace to everyone and their sheep.