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Gerund · Joined: 09 Feb 2003 Posts: 80 Location: Amerika

BE indirect object grammar patterns are a bit different than in AE. When the IO is a pronoun, only this pattern is used in AE:

I gave it to David.

The Brits would say that too, of course, but they might also say

I gave David it.

And if the DO were a pronoun as well, the Brits might say

I gave him it.

(Correct me if I'm wrong.)

My question is this: Could a BE speaker hypothetically start with a sentence like

I gave the books to the girls.

and by replacing both the IO and DO with pronouns, go from this

I gave them to them. (DO to IO)

to this?

I gave them them. (IO DO)

I’m entirely serious about this, and I hope for serious answers. Not interested in snarky or silly answers.

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

HLJHLJ · Joined: 06 Oct 2009 Posts: 1218 Location: Ecuador

It would be fine in informal spoken BrE though you wouldn't usually write it. I wasn't aware of this difference in BrE and AmE. What constructions are possible in AmE?

Sashadroogie · Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 2:11 pm Post subject:

Excellent OP.

Wasn't aware of any differences here either, to be honest.

Would Americans not say the following?

"Then give them them then"

Daveric · Joined: 03 Jan 2014 Posts: 37

Yeah, we (AE) say all that.

JN · Joined: 17 Jan 2008 Posts: 214

On a slightly different topic, what bothers me is: Have you got... and Do you have... . The first I assume is UK English, but my students often say, e.g.: Have you a pencil? If my knowledge of UK English is correct, then it should be: Have you got a pencil, but it is unnatural for me to say this.

So far the books I've looked at seem to have the British grammar, so it's hard for me to speak one way and teach the students a different way, but confusing to them if I teach them both.

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

Part of the job. The whole world doesn't speak 'merican, for some silly reason Shocked

Sashadroogie · Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 6:12 pm Post subject:

I've never known students to be confused by either or both of these structures. Some teachers, maybe... Very Happy

Sashadroogie · Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 6:12 pm Post subject:

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

Amen, kamarad!

JN · Joined: 17 Jan 2008 Posts: 214

I think the confusion I've noticed with students is just that there is more than one way to say it, depending on the country. Perhaps I'll just not mention which is spoken in what country-at least to my lower level students.

It's okay with me if the students don't speak "'merician." I don't have a problem with that, but I don't try to speak UK English.

I once worked with a couple of translators from England and one said he'd teach me correct English and the other guy, who was from Cambridge (not sure if this matters), said the other guy wasn't teaching me proper English. I suppose I'll never speak proper English, whatever that is.