Job Discussion Forums

[savi]

Hello there,

At first, I'd like to introduce myself and briefly describe myself. My name is Dawid, I will turn 21 in January.
I am a European (Polish) and I live in the UK. I attend the college over here (NVQ Lvl 3 in Mechanical Engineering) and also I am going to start the university (The Open University) to get a bachelor degree. I've chosen the English and Literature major.

So much for the introduction. I have a couple of questions for the future. Firstly, have I chosen a right major in order to find a job overseas (particularly I mean in South-Eastern Asia, because I am really fascinated about this region).

I've been hesitating between the Education major and the English language & literature. Finally, I've made the decision to pick up the second one. What are your thoughts about my choice?

Secondly, will I even have any real, I am marking out a word real chances to find a job in countries like Korea, Taiwan, Japan, China, Vietnam, Thailand etc with the BA in English from a British University and let's say a PGCE / TEFL / CELTA certification?

Thirdly, what are your expectations of the job market in Asia in let's say 3-5 years? In your opinion will there still be a demand for foreign English teachers (not necessarily native)?

Fourthly, do the fact that I'll possibly have a chance (maybe in few yeas) obtain the UK citizenship and passport enhance my value in any way (I guess that it does, but I'd like to know the opinion of an experienced people in the business).

Fifthly, do you think that finding a legit job remotely as a NNES and person like me is possible or should I rather turn up in a place I'd like to teach and work in?

Sixthly, thank you for reading this abundant and long post I hope that you will help me to direct my career and reach my dreams of Asia.

And obviously - Merry Christmas everyone.

Best regards,
Dawid

[creeper1]

Korea, Taiwan and Japan. Forget about them. These places are very popular and can therefore demand native speakers - that is candidates with their primary and secondary education in a native English speaking country.

China and Vietnam present opportunities. In China they are trying to up standards and make sure all those issued residence permit are native speakers with degrees. However I know for a fact that there are a lot of people here not native speakers teaching English for big employers.

In Vietnam much of the work is done under the table anyway and again plenty of non native speakers teaching English.

You said you like South East Asia? Well Vietnam will be right up your street.

The job market of the future raises questions about demographics since most of us teach kids.

On that question of demographics, Korea and Japan are going to have a demographic catastrophe. Their very survival as a race is questionable.

In Vietnam they have a growing population and ought to offer a good future for a long time.

[fluffytwo]

I think you need to be aiming for at least a PGCE if you want to differentiate yourself sufficiently from the thousands of NES graduates and provide yourself with more options (such as teaching, albeit not really TEFL, in international schools; or possibly teaching as more than just an AET in state schools in e.g. Japan, assuming you could pass the licensing exams in Japanese LOL; or possibly even returning to the UK to teach in state schools there, unattractive though that might be) than increasingly hand-to-mouth entry-level (e.g. private language school; AETing) TEFL work. Some might even advise you to not give up the engineering!

Regarding the demographics, presumably places like Japan are going to have to eventually compromize and let in an appreciably larger number foreign workers, and grant permanent residency more readily.

[savi]

[suphanburi]

[mitsui]

In Taiwan I knew a Russian who ended up losing his visa as he was thought to be a native speaker.

In Japan it does happen that French or German teachers end up teaching English as well, but they need at least a MA and sometimes have to take an English test to prove their competence.

There is so much competition for work that a MA or masters degree is the bare minimum.
A UK passport would certainly help.
I knew a Pole who taught in Japan but her MA was from the USA.

There is less work than before in Taiwan and Korea.

[nomad soul]

[mitsui]

There will be work but the Koreans and Japanese can be picky about who they hire since there can be many people who apply.
Long term trends do not look good as there are fewer young people than there are elderly.
I make less money than I used to. To make money one has to get better at Japanese, publish, and/or get a doctorate.

I knew a man from Spain who had to teach at a kindergarten. That is all having a BA gets you when you are non-native.
Once you have a higher degree, doors open, but it should be done in the UK, USA, etc.

[savi]

Thank for your replies.

As I have mentioned in the first post, I am starting the university over here in England, I have chosen the English language and literature major. I am being sceptical because most of the people tend to say that the Education major is better in terms of employability. What do you think about the decision I have made?

With an honorous degree in English from a UK university will I be competitive in any way? Of course, I know that I won't be with the graduated natives, but I think that the market is basically too big and the NES can not satiable it just by themselves, I suppose.

I plan to obtain my degree and afterwards go abroad, maybe to do any kind of an internship (TEFL or something, but most of those I have found are seeking the English speaking countries passport holders solely) to gain some valuable experience or just put my best step forward to get an entry-level job in the business in the region I am interested in and then working for a year or more, assuming that over there would be a good opportunity. Otherwise, I'd come back to the UK and trying to get a job here along with putting an effort to get a UK passport and citizenship.

What do you think about this? Do you think that just a degree from the UK would be enough for any job? I do not expect to earn the millions, I am marking out, just to have the money to easily afford the living costs and if something would be saveable, that would be great. I do not have big expectations, because of an adventure and experience of living in the country I like.

Merry Christmas and happy New Year guys,
Dawid

[nomad soul]

[savi]

[nomad soul]

[suphanburi]

OP:

In East Asia, as a NNES, you are not competing with native speakers but with other NNES applicants.

You are at a distinct disadvantage.
You have the wrong passport - you are neither from a G7, a NES or ASEAN block country.

The NNES teacher applicants you are competing against:

They will usually have education related degrees.
They will work for much less than you (often as little as 300 pounds/month).
They are closer to the jobs (often from places like India, the Philippines, etc).
Their numbers are vast.
Their English skills are usually equal to yours (often level C1 or C2 for visa issuance).

Get an education related qualification (opens up mainstream schools that use English as the medium of instruction rather than just language centers).

You have the background... go STEM.
The pay is much better and there is far less competition.

Feel free to ignore the advice but don't complain when the truth on the ground is not the same as the glossy brochures and website that tout "teach and travel" would have you believe.

.

[mitsui]

I have met a couple of Russians with experience in Japan. If you can get a MS in engineering, and with ability in English, that would look good.
Some of my students are studying science. There is a real push with English and sometimes students have to study science in English, especially those who study medicine or other subjects like chemistry.

To teach such classes, a MA is the bare minimum. I know a teacher with a doctorate who does.

Then I think you could get work in Japan as either a teacher, researcher, or both.

I have worked in Poland. At the university in Lodz I talked to a student who had experience working in Korea. She hated it. Be careful for what you wish for.

[savi]