Job Discussion Forums

[China2]

A person I know has just had his L visa application rejected due to the fact that he had only bought a single ticket to Beijing. They told him that he needed a return.

As the online single flight ticket cannot be cancelled, would an ongoing ticket to Hong Kong suffice? So it would be a ticket from a European destination - Beijing, and then a separate ticket Beijing - Hong Kong. Would the embassy accept this or as Hong Kong is still part of China would the embassy reject his application again? Does anyone have any suggestions?

thanks - much appreciated

[Non Sequitur]

For tourism HK is treated as a sep country so an outward PEK-HK should be OK.
BUT is does raise a red flag about intentions.

[jimpellow]

Countries want to see proof of onward travel. I can't see why they would insist on a return ticket - but this is the PRC we are talking about.

I think a throwaway ticket to HK may not be the best destination. I would have him look at the Philippines, Korea, Japan, Vietnam etc. Refundable tickets usually work, but some airlines will no longer process the refund if they feel its intent was as a throwaway ticket.

MOD EDIT

[OhBudPowellWhereArtThou]

How long does the OP intend to stay? If he intends to stay no longer than his visa allows, then why wouldn't he buy a return ticket?

If he wants to get a job and stay in China, he will have a difficult time with that. Though there are persistent and (as always) unsubstantiated fairy tales about converting an L visa to a Z visa in-country with a fast checkout line, the OP should be very wary.

[MsHoffman]

I came to Guangdong on an L visa and the university where I work converted it to a Z visa. I now have the standard 1 year residence permit for foreign experts, work permit, etc.

I needed a return ticket or I would not have been given a boarding pass to go from Los Angeles to Guangzhou. The ticket agent checked thoroughly.

So I wasted the money on the return ticket

On the plus side, I really like my life here and I really like the teaching work. Good pay, fair standards, nice students.

[OhBudPowellWhereArtThou]

I remember your fairy tale.

The story sounds like something promulgated by HFG several years ago.

[Non Sequitur]

[jimpellow]

[OhBudPowellWhereArtThou]

The conditions for visa-on-arrival don't include obtaining a visa for work.

http://www.beijingesc.com/visa-on-arrival.html

and

http://www.hongdaservice.com/blog/5-day-shenzhen-visa-on-arrival-for-foreigners-now-available.

[jimpellow]

[OhBudPowellWhereArtThou]

In the U.S., there is (or was) a TWV (Traveler Without Visa) exemption to (at least) some countries. I know. I accompanied someone to the airport whose travel agent lied to her and told her that she didn't need a visa to travel to her destination. When she checked in, a big, burly security guard escorted her through security, and sat beside her on the concourse while they waited for boarding to commence. He escorted her onto the plane (and by her account) was identified to the captain and crew as a traveler without a visa.

Her destination wasn't China, and airplane security is SO much tighter these days that I can't imagine any western airline allowing any sort of TWV travel to any destination that requires an entry visa.

[jimpellow]

Interesting. That is the first I had heard of this. I would think that this in the Untied States it is stemming from the police state's paranoia that someone traveling without a visa could be on a one-way suicide trip. I know when I would travel all the time on one way tickets in the US, for my hectic business consulting gig, that I would have to go through enhanced security each and every time. I always thought an actual terrorist would splurge for a round trip ticket to avoid the scrutiny. Not like he is going to be worried about next month's credit card bill.

I know the proof of onward travel stems from the airlines not wanting to be responsible for flying the expat back home in the event he ends up indignant and a pain in the butt for the destination government. As it happens quite a bit in SE Asia and Latin America, that is why in practice it seems to be most enforced there.

To get back to topic, if someone is traveling from say the US to China with the agreement of a visa-on-arrival, they shouldn't need a visa. But how does the airline and US know this and respond accordingly?

[OhBudPowellWhereArtThou]

This may answer part of your question:

https://travel.state.gov/content/visas/en/visit/visa-waiver-program.html

If there is no such understanding between the U.S. and China [text added], a visa waver may not be allowed by the airline.

Either someone is sadly misinformed, or the PRC hasn't changed its website to reflect the alleged new VOA:

http://www.china-embassy.org/eng/visas/faq/

Then there's the following:

[To be found at https://hongkong.usconsulate.gov/acs_prcvisa.html ]

*NEW* Applying for China visas in Hong Kong

The Consular Section of the China Commission in Hong Kong generally requests that visa applicants have working or residency status in Hong
Kong. For visa application forms and details on the process please refer to the China Commission's website: Address/Office hours/Enquiry service.

Given the vagueness of it all, I think it foolish for anyone to attempt to try to travel to China without a visa for any reason or to travel to China on an L visa believing that he'll be granted a z visa upon arrival. While I see it conceivable for Ms Hoffman, et al might have been enticed to arrive on an L visa (or none at all) and then had the help of the school to circumvent or reinterpret the word of the law, the fact that the local authorities are the ones who make the decisions renders the proposition less than appetizing, if not unbelievable.

Most people won't travel across their own countries without something in writing that assures them that a job awaits them and that they may be hired legally. I can't see why some are willing to travel to the other side of the world where laws and policies aren't uniformly applied and enforced. Worse, laws and policies in China are often contradictory and vague beyond comprehension.

While it is often possible to walk across a very busy Chinese intersection against the light and not get run over, who is willing to do it habitually?

No one in his right mind.

[jimpellow]

You make some good points bud. As pertains the articles about the VOA some months ago, I never saw anything that one had a choice in the matter. One arrived in Guangzhou, in Miss Hoffman's case, without a Z. One apparently does not have the option to have it processed beforehand, to have that layer of security you rightfully describe.

As for the upcoming new unified permit done online, it really is quite vague how the hell an accepted applicant gets to and into China.

http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2016/11/25/obtaining-a-z-visa-work-permit-and-residence-permit-in-china.html

Interesting! "If an applicant is not accepted, they can apply for reconsideration, or bring an administrative lawsuit against the licensing authority."