Job Discussion Forums

[cheryl]

Hi everyone,

since i've been browsing Dave's Cafe, i've noticed that in the SA forum most of the posters are male. (since i AM a lazy butt, i'm not going to read every single post ever made in here therefore i won't say that there never ever was a female post)

My question is: How prevelant are women teachers in SA? are there many female EFL classes or are EFL classes mainly focused on men?

I'm an applied linguistics honours student with a CTESL graduating in a month...what are my chances for a job in SA??

Cheryl

[scot47]

There are jobs for women here. You would be teaching in a women-only environment. There are not so many jobs and a lot of competion from Saudi women. Teaching and nursing are about the only careers open to them here.

You would find living conditions rather restrictive. One place to try would be Dar Al Hekma in Jeddah.

[veiledsentiments]

You could probably get a job, but I don't think that you want to. Especially if this would be your first teaching experience in the Middle East. (and I'm not sure from your message if it is your first experience at all) Unless you are Muslim and married, it can be extremely restrictive and often unpleasant. Even my Muslim women friends who have been there, either working or not, disliked it.

If you wish to experience this part of the world, there are lots of places that are much more pleasant and interesting. If the money is what attracts you, the Emirates has many places that pay as well. But, most of them require experienced teachers.

[cheryl]

Thanks Scot47 and Veiledsentiments,

Sounds like SA is not for me, but i'll keep researching. Yes, this would be my first experience teaching in the Middle East, it would be my first experience teaching anywhere overseas actually. So far i've only taught in an outreach program (immigrants and refugees) where the students and lead teachers are more than happy to have me there.

One part of my lure to SA was the money, but the other part was the culture. I understand the restrictions women face but i feel i can deal with it. For me, (and i hope this doesn't sound too much like OPRAH) the only way to experience/know a culture is to live in it. Whether the experience is good or bad, it's the experience that counts. Anyways, thanks again for both of your responses, i'll keep them in mind.

[Alobar]

[veiledsentiments]

Hi Cheryl

If you really want to experience the Middle Eastern culture, the Gulf is really not the best place. About the only contact you have is your students. Gulf Arabs have so many family obligations that their social lives are almost completely tied up with their families. Saudi would be the extreme of an almost impossibility of really learning and experiencing the culture. Expats tend to spend their lives with other expats. People work there for 20 years and never even learn any Arabic!!

If you really want to live in the culture to learn about it from the inside, you need to go to a place like Egypt or the Levant (Syria, Lebanon, Jordan). They are also much more relaxed and comfortable with foreigners. Women can go out and about and you can even meet with a local woman and have tea in one of the hotels or go shopping. This is very unlikely to happen in the Gulf.

Of course, the drawback is that there are very few jobs that pay all that well. There's always a catch. Feel free to PM me if you want to talk more specifically.

[cheryl]

Alobar,

i'm still fairly new to Dave's Cafe and haven't yet learned how to "cut and paste on here", i hope this works.

The worst experiences you can imagine as a presumably middle-class Canadian are nowhere nearly as bad as some experiences that actually happen to people.

[johnslat]

Dear cheryl,
Before my ( second ) wife came over here to Saudi Arabia, I spent weeks playing " Devil's Advocate ", telling her what it would be like for a woman,
deliberately painting the worst possible picture. Though all of this, she kept smiling, nodding her head and saying, " Well, I can handle that ". Two weeks after she arrived in the Kingdom, she came and asked me: " Why didn't you TELL me what it would be like? " . Some environments, it seems, can't be " fully appreciated " second-hand; only when you are actually IN them are you able to comprehend how they affect you. So forgive this " cautionary tale ", but it's meant to put you on your guard about what women here have to endure.
Regards,
John

[Stephen Jones]

Dear Cheryl,
As has already been pointed out, the main problem an expat woman will have in Sauid is being allowed to experience anything at all, pleasant or unpleasant.

Try Kuwait, Bahrnain or the Emirates, though if you want "different cultures" avoid the Gulf altogether.

[scot47]

Saudi is not for the faint-hearted. For unaccompanied women it is, or can be, VERY difficult. Monastic. Isolating. Culturally alien. But if you get the right job it is tolerable. But come here only for one reason. THE MONEY. If you want a deeply-enriching cultural experience this is not the place because you will not get it. You will not learn about Saudi society. You will not see much of it. Or any of it. Saudis socialise largely within the family.

Set yourself an objective - middle or long term and try to reach it. Some come here because they want to be near Mecca and Medina. Some come here because they have the opportunity to mix with large numbers of young men. I cannot comment on either category of visitors.

I came because I can earn a reasonable salary and save. Mercenary ? That is 120 percent correct !

[cheryl]

Alobar - sorry for the incorrect use of the "quote" feature...

Steven/John - thanks for your input, i'm no longer thinking about going to SA. From all you've said, i'd be a female fool to do so!

Scott - thanks for giving me alternatives. teaching is a way to travel for me, i'm not as concerned about the money althought getting both is a clear bonus If SA won't allow me to experience the country nor it's culture, then it's not the place for me.

take care all,

Cheryl

[Leila2003]

Dear Cheryl

Like you I am new to this chatroom. I have however, noted that all the responses you have been receiving have been from men. Well here is my two cents worth. I am a young (20's) Muslim female, who i must admit came to Saudi to be near Mecca. I have however found restrictions that even I found amazing!!!! and you must know that my grandfather was Saudi so I grew up with quite a number of restrictions!

It is difficult....yes you only see the inside of your school..and then your apartment! you spend all of your time with other expats...you cannot do anything on your own....and this is a simple thing like going to the supermarket to get groceries....we have a bus that takes all the expats that work in our school three times a week...other times we feel like climbing the walls...

If you do intend coming you may have a wonderful time....I have a Canadian friend who even got married here, albeit not to a Saudi...

So if you really want to do it...come on over....

P.S. YOu will NOT experience saudi culture since they are a very private kind of nation and will not include you in family gatherings or such. The main reason for this is the segregation of the sexes.

Hope this has been useful.

[johnslat]

Dear Leila2003,
My mans-point-of-view of your woman's-of-view of what living and working in Saudi Arabia is like for a female is that you were fair, honest, unbiased and " told it as it really is ". I think it's great that we finally have
a woman's input on this subject.
Regards,
John
P.S. Uh, this really isn't a " chatroom "; it's a message board forum. Wouldn't want Dave to take umbrage at being called a " chatroom host ".
That has too " plebian " a ring to it.

[Cleopatra]

Don't know if this thread is still running but here's my two rials worth.

The 'horror stories' about not being able to leave the country and so on do happen, but it's far far more likely that the worst thing you will experience is mind-numbing boredom and isolation. As a single woman, there just isn't much to do here unless you're lucky enough to fall into a lively social circle - and that's rare these days.

Still, though, i don't agree that you would have to be mad to live here. Nor do I entirely agree that you won't see anything of Saudi culture here. True, the socieity is very self-protective and invites to homes are rare, but as a teacher, you will hae a better chance than most expats to get an insight into the society. I've been to several SAudi weddings and have had the most amazing conversations with the young men and women I teach. If you do make friends with Saudis, however, they will probably be Saudis with some foreign - usually Arab - blood. Riyadh is generally considered to be the most difficult place to live in KSA, because the society here is very closed indeed, even by Saudi standards.

Despte everything, most single women here do manage to stick it out for a year or two. The ones who stay longer either have very clear financial motivations, have a boyfriend here or, to put it frankly, are a bit weird. Try KSA, by all means, and put fears of kidnapping aside. Just don't expect a rich cultural and social experience!

[The_Prodiigy]

As others have opined in this thread ... KSA is to be avoided unless you want to find rich materials for fiction or memoirs or you like looking at camels and empty shopping malls.

There are other ... more appealing places.

Japan ?