Job Discussion Forums

[IanMWashburn]

Sifting through the strings here on Dave's, there seems to be agreement that the Chinese legal and regulatory agencies charged with the job of enforcing their own policies, are incompetent, unresponsive and/or corrupt.

Going to court is often touted as the only effective way of making crooked schools accountable.

However, it appears that lately there is a tightening of the adherence to the laws and regs. (Or is it just me who is seeing this?).

So my questions are:

1. Does anyone know of any governmental person or agency (SAFEA etc) who will respond to legitimate and documented complaints about illegal and fraudulent practices, which ultimately damage the interests of the students, some of whom are children?

2. If so, can you please respond with as much DETAIL as possible?

3. If there are no real regulators and prosecutors, then what is the procedure for starting a court case in China?

4. Has anyone personally been through this court process?

5. Can anyone recommend a bona fide, honorable, incorruptible Chinese lawyer in Qingdao and/or Shanghai, who is an expert in these matters?

6. Does anyone know the conspiracy laws of China? Can you refer to exact sections of Chinese law? (Conspiracy to commit a crime is itself a crime in most countries.)

7. In the various provinces, is there an office equal to the District Attorney (as in the U.S.) ? At the central government level in Beijing, is there an office like the U.S Attorney's office, charged with prosecuting violators of federal (national) laws?

With the eyes of the world increasingly on China in the lead-up to the Olympics, it seems that China is tightening its enforcement. Maybe.

I want to blow the whistle, but who will listen?

Thanks as always.

[jeffinflorida]

[IanMWashburn]

[SocratesSon2]

Interesting how you try to sound so poetic and accepting of death, I don't think you took what the responder said seriously.

[hairuo]

Maybe the OP should read some news and posts from eariler... about the man who was found dead after challenging his schools owner. The one who called his mother and said he feared for his life and that was the last she heard from him..... Yes, Mr. OP....reread Jeff's words very carefully.

[IanMWashburn]

[IanMWashburn]

Hairuo:

Not that it matters, but I am ALWAYS in fear for my life.

I take threats VERY seriously.

Thank you all so very much for your apparent concern for my safety.

But again, this is NOT the topic.

Can you help with the request as posted.

If not, please do not respond further to this thread.

Thank you.

[Ahchoo]

Why do you feel the need to 'blow the whistle' in China.
Unless it is you personally who is being wronged, in which case you have a complaint to make, I really don't think you'll be taken too seriously.
Remember, this is China and you are a visitor, long or short term.
What you perceive as 'corrupt practices' may not be seen that way by others.
Perhaps you could be a little more specific about what it is that you want to blow the whistle on.

[jeffinflorida]

[IanMWashburn]

[Brian Caulfield]

I think this forum provides the greatest service to teachers in avoiding the pitfalls of teaching English in China . I worked 8 years in Korea and conditions were more horrifying. The average stay in South Korea is about 6 months.
So the only way to avoid the problems is to do your homework. Go to schools talk to present teachers , check out their libraries and text books.
How many basketball courts do they have ? (joke)
Is there a passing on of the tourch? Do they replace all their teachers every year. My experience is that the best jobs are not advertized. You get them through contacts.
Talking to foreigners in business here, they have told me that a contract means nothing, what counts is a solid relationship with people. Sometimes this is better. Like a poster said here a few posting ago . His school gave him paid leave to see a dieing father. Now they could of just let him go but they didn't.

[hairuo]

First of all you have to good documentation. What happened, the date, what time, who talked to who, what was said. Every detail you can remember. You must have good documentation! Then talk to foreign affairs officer at the provincial level in the capital of whatever province you are in. You can go to the SAFEA website and send a message, but I know noone that ever got a return message.

LIke the posters before me... you probaly wont be taken very seriously. Someone might come to your school. But more than likely you will get a polite phone call.

[China.Pete]

"I want to blow the whistle, but who will listen?" -- Ian M Washburn

Well, probably the person you are blowing the whistle on, for one. But before you get too deeply involved in testing the reformist wind you suppose to be blowing through China, I suggest you do some research into the experiences of whistle-blowers, or even potential whistle-blowers, in your own country--America. Then, you need to ask yourself on what basis you would expect to have a similar or a dissimilar experience here in China.

[Teatime of Soul]

You can start with SAFEA or the local PSB. Or you can write letters to the Beijing PSB directly.

You need to clarify whether you want to pursue a civil or criminal action. Obviously, only the local police attorney (prosecutor) can initiate a criminal action.

Attorneys, (i.e. provincial prosecutors) will give GREAT deference to the local PSB and local government education regulators office opinion on the matter. In China, laws are made nationally and enforced and interpreted locally. This means local interpretation can be completely opposite what the national law says; and everybody is comfortable with that.

Then, there is civil court. There are of course, no incorruptible lawyers if by incorruptible you mean an Atticus Finch type who is not only willing to sacrifice his career, fly in the face of convention and culture, and be the man forever reviled for allowing his community to lose massive face for a laowai wearing Savaronola's robes. I'd suggest you look for a young lawyer with absolutely nothing to lose, independent wealth, a thirst for confrontation and rejection and an already approved immigration permit.

Now there is another matter of legal standing. You see, you can't just go sue on another parties behalf. For example, I can't sue McDonalds on behalf of it's paying customers because I find McDonald's business practices abhorrent. Normally, only the injured party has legal standing to sue. So, you'll need to meet with the prospective claimants to file suit. Not sure China allows class action suits either.

To answer your question "I want to blow the whistle, but who will listen? "


If you have say, video evidence, including a full confessions, in Chinese by all parties, you might, perhaps might, get some attention.

The attention you will draw will be, of course, focused on how to solve the problem of the meddling laowai.

Since your PSB, the school, and the local govt. officers all have a very long and cordial relationship with each other that will continue many years after you are gone, you can imagine the conversations.

The PSB and your school can have you branded a "undesirable" or "troublemaker" or point out that you have broken China laws (If they say you have, you have) and request your immediate deportation.

Of course all this will likely happen long before you have your day in court. Hopefully your personal connections with the court officials (which makes a HUGE difference in outcome) and your personal local influence will be sufficient to unravel and prevail over their decades of interconnected relationships within the community.

Hope this helps. Please do keep us posted on you progress in what ought to be a most fascinating morality play.

Cheers and Cotton Mather beers to all the arriviste reformers in China.

[11:59]