|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Bibbitybop
Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Location: Seoul
|
 Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:19 am Post subject: U.S. citizens: Renouncing your citizenship for tax purposes |
 |
|
Before you do it, have a gander:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/18/world/18expat.html?ei=5090&en=5655d020c1763b3f&ex=1324098000&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=print
Tax Leads Americans Abroad to Renounce U.S.
By DOREEN CARVAJAL
| Quote: |
She is a former marine, a native Californian and, now, an ex-American who prefers to remain discreet about abandoning her citizenship. After 10 years of warily considering options, she turned in her United States passport last month without ceremony, becoming an alien in the view of her homeland.
�It�s a really hard thing to do,� said the woman, a 16-year resident of Geneva who had tired of the cost and time of filing yearly United States tax returns on top of her Swiss taxes. �I just kept putting this off. But it�s my kids and the estate tax. I don�t care if I die with only one Swiss franc to my name, but the U.S. shouldn�t get money I earned here when I die.�
Historically, small numbers of Americans have turned in their passports every year for political and economic reasons, with the numbers reaching a high of about 2,000 during the Vietnam War in the early 1970s.
But after Congress sharply raised taxes this year for many Americans living abroad, some international tax lawyers say they detect rising demand from citizens to renounce ties with the United States, the only developed country that taxes it citizens while they live overseas. Americans abroad are also taxed in the countries where they live.
�The administrative costs of being an American and living outside the U.S. have gone up dramatically,� said Marnin Michaels, a tax lawyer with Baker & McKenzie in Zurich.
So far this year, the Internal Revenue Service has tallied 509 Americans who have given up their citizenship, said Anthony Burke, an I.R.S. spokesman in Washington. He said complete figures were still being calculated.
Applications to renounce citizenship are on the rise at the American Embassy in Paris, according to an official who spoke on condition of anonymity. At the embassy in London, the number of applications was reported to be fairly stable over the past two years, though it would be hard to spot a recent surge because applications are taking longer to process there than in past years. Neither embassy would disclose exact figures. A spokeswoman for the American Embassy in London, Karen Maxfield, said Americans living abroad usually took the step �because they do not have strong ties to the United States and do not believe that they will ever live there in the future.�
�All have two citizenships and generally say they would like to simplify their lives by giving up a citizenship they are not using,� she said.
Andy Sundberg, a director of the Geneva-based American Citizens Abroad, has been tracking renunciations dating back to the 1960s through annual Treasury Department figures. He considers the numbers low compared with some stretches in the past, like the early 1970s. But he has also noticed a recent increase in interest among Americans in renouncing their citizenship.
�I think the cup is boiling over for a number of people living abroad,� Mr. Sundberg said. �With the Internet and the speed and the ubiquity of information, people are more aware of what�s happening.� With the changes in the tax laws, he said, some Americans living abroad fear �they�re heading toward a real storm.�
He cited a survey by the American Chamber of Commerce in Singapore, which polled its members in October and November and found that many were considering returning to the United States because of the higher taxes.
Concern about taxes among Americans living abroad has surged since President Bush signed into law a bill that sharply raises tax rates for those with incomes of more than $82,400 a year. The legislation also increases taxes on employer-provided benefits like housing allowances.
The changes, enacted in May, apply retroactively to Jan. 1, 2006.
Matthew Ledvina, an international tax lawyer in Geneva, said demand for legal counsel on the citizenship issue was coming largely from American citizens who held second passports and who had minimal ties to the United States.
�There are incentives to do it before the end of the year so that you can minimize your future reporting,� he said.
Mr. Ledvina said the waiting period for appointments at the American Embassy in London had increased from a few days to more than three and a half months. He said he had recently approached embassies in Vienna, Bern, London, Paris and Brussels before finally getting an appointment in Amsterdam for a client�s renunciation application.
The legal ritual of renunciation is largely unique to the United States because other countries base taxation on residency, not citizenship, according to Ingmar D�rr, a tax lawyer with Lovells in Munich.
�We don�t have that issue,� he said. �We only have the problem that rich people who don�t want to pay taxes in Germany just move to a lower-tax country in Switzerland.�
For some Americans abroad, motivations for renunciation are mixed and complex, involving social concerns, political displeasure with their government and other reasons. But it is clear that taxation plays a large role for many, even though few are willing to admit that because of penalties enacted a decade ago.
In 1996, Congress tried to address a wave of tax-driven expatriation by the wealthy by requiring former citizens to file tax returns for a decade and forbidding Americans who renounced their passports for tax reasons from visiting the United States.
But in practice, the government is mainly interested in wealthier ex-citizens with a net worth of more than $2 million � few of whom pay further United States taxes because they generally avoid making American financial investments after giving up citizenship, Mr. Ledvina said. As for the rule barring entry to tax refugees, he said, it has not been enforced by the authorities.
Still, that possibility prompts ex-citizens to tread carefully and remain discreet about their choices.
�I didn�t give up my citizenship with a sense of hostility,� said an importer in Geneva who renounced her citizenship as President Bush was taking office in 2001. �I gave it up with a sense of fairness.� |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
OiGirl
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: Hoke-y-gun
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 2:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
| How many English teachers make enough that they are taxed in the US? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 2:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I'm going to assume none. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 2:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| So far this year, the Internal Revenue Service has tallied 509 Americans |
A couple of months ago we passed 300,000,000 people. 509 so far this year...a veritable tsunami, isn't it? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Demonicat
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Location: Suwon
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 2:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Turning in your citizenship is just a dumbass move unless you have citizenship in another country. Furthermore, there are tax breaks to be had for those in that income bracket. In this demon cat's eyes, these expatriates are just stupid. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bibbitybop
Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Location: Seoul
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 5:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I agree that most teachers here aren't making enough to be taxed out the arse to the point of having to escape taxes. With examples from the article about living in Geneva, a very highly taxed place, it could benefit some people around the world, but then you give up U.S. visitation rights. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ChopChaeJoe
Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Location: Seoul
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 8:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
| My Texan citizenship automatically makes me an American, and there are probably benefits there worth paying taxes for. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bibbitybop
Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Location: Seoul
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 4:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
ChopChaeJoe said:
| Quote: |
| My Texan citizenship automatically makes me an American |
Classic. I always liked the fact your state constitution allows you to secede from the Union anytime you feel like it (or is that just a rumor?). When you want to, I'm sure the rest of the country will bid a warm fare-thee-well!  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
oskinny1
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Location: Right behind you!
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 8:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Just a myth, but why the hate? We gave the world greats like LBJ and the "W". Think how boring contemporary US history would have been without those two gems! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bibbitybop
Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Location: Seoul
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 9:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I think it's culturally required to hate on Texas if you are from any other state. I have relatives in Houston, and I still rip on them. Austin is a sweet city if you want a praise! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
oskinny1
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Location: Right behind you!
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 10:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
When people ask me where I am from I usually say Texas instead of America because I always get a favorable response. If the US is doing something dumber than usual I say I pretend I am Czech.
Oh, sorry to threadjack.
There is another article that says you have to pay income tax for 10 years after you leave...if you're wealthy at least. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 10:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| So whats the problem? She values money and her kids over some arbitrary thing like citizenshop.Money, kids are real things. Citizenship is an abstract illusion. Why should she give money to a country she doesnt even live in and has no plans to live in, ever? Nationlism, patriotism, these are stupid concepts created to enslave the minds of the commoners. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bibbitybop
Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Location: Seoul
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 10:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Jinju said
| Quote: |
| So whats the problem? She values money and her kids over some arbitrary thing like citizenshop.Money, kids are real things. Citizenship is an abstract illusion. Why should she give money to a country she doesnt even live in and has no plans to live in, ever? Nationlism, patriotism, these are stupid concepts created to enslave the minds of the commoners. |
I agree with most of that, except having no citizenship can cause you to be unprotected in a war or some legal issues. If you have no citizenship, can you have a passport and travel anywhere? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ChopChaeJoe
Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Location: Seoul
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 4:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
Texas may NOT succeed from the U.S.
No state can.
People dump on texas because they're jealous. It doen't bother me in the elast. I find it amusing. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
krats1976
Joined: 14 May 2003
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 4:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Bibbitybop wrote: |
I think it's culturally required to hate on Texas if you are from any other state. |
Especially if you're from Alaska.
After all, if they divided Alaska in half, Texas would be the 3rd largest state.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
