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plokiju
Joined: 15 Mar 2005
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 Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 2:39 am Post subject: Unpaid Wages: What steps to take? Now with new immi issue. |
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I have been running around to a ton of different government agencies lately and finally have a certificate of unpaid wages. My boss agrees to the amount he owes me but he claims I owe him the recruiting fee and airfare when the contract clearly states I only need to pay him that if I break the contract (they fired me). The labour board agrees that I don't owe him anything but he wants to try and find a judge to agree with him. I've been to the legal aid office but unfortunately I heard it could take 6-8 months for my case to be heard (I'm in Daegu). My boss has also already threatened to appeal every decision the courts make as long as he is legally able. I was wondering if anyone could tell me ways to expedite the process.
These are some of the suggestions was recruiter made:
1) Contact my embassy: I'm not sure if they'd be able to do anything but provide a list of lawyers or tell me how I can proceed.
2) Call a news station: I don't know whether a TV producer would find the case worth airing or turning into news. Unless of course, there were other teachers and we could convince a major network to do an expose on the crookedness of the hagwon business.
3) Visit my old school frequently, stand outside with a protest sign, or convince a police officer to go there with me: I don't know about this option. It would definitely make my ex-boss very angry but it would either make concede and pay up or dead-set to not pay me. The school's location isn't really all that prominent and I'm sure the school would try to turn it against me and start telling the kids even more lies about me. I doubt I could get a police officer to come with me. They could probably call the police and have me forcibly removed for creating a disturbance or something if I did go there with a sign.
Have any of you heard of things working? Would it be more likely to help me get my money (2.2M won) or more likely to make me look bad if it ended up going to court?
4) Criminal court: The other option is to take it to criminal court instead of going through civil court. My boss would be fined (or sent to prison, though very unlikely). I've heard that I wouldn't be entitled to my full wages either and if the school claims bankruptcy I may not get any money. Does anyone know the time-frame of a criminal case or any outcome?
I've just started to seriously look into new schools to stay for the long haul but would probably prefer to take off with my money if I could. Do any of the options sound viable or should I just take it to civil court like I'd originally planned?
(The school by the way is Win School or Winschool in Daegu. I know they are desperate for new teachers as I've already been recommended the position by 2 recruiting agencies).
See also (if you are interested in backstory):
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=69216
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=69597
Last edited by plokiju on Thu Dec 21, 2006 5:36 am; edited 1 time in total |
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poet13
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
Location: Just over there....throwing lemons.
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:04 am Post subject: |
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1. Embassy.  Not a chance.
2. Interesting but doubtful. And it could turn out to be free advertising for you ex employer if he or she spins it right. You WERE fired. He doens't have to reveal why on air, and can just psin it that he is just the poor honest businessman being abused by a bad foreigner.
3. I've hea rd people suggest that before, but honestly I think its just stupid and embarassing.
4. It's not a criminal claim. It's civil. Some knowledgable person might sort you out on that. (hint.....start with a tt, and ends with a ompatz) |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:05 am Post subject: |
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| poet13 wrote: |
1. Embassy. Not a chance.
2. Interesting but doubtful. And it could turn out to be free advertising for you ex employer if he or she spins it right. You WERE fired. He doens't have to reveal why on air, and can just psin it that he is just the poor honest businessman being abused by a bad foreigner.
3. I've hea rd people suggest that before, but honestly I think its just stupid and embarassing.
4. It's not a criminal claim. It's civil. Some knowledgable person might sort you out on that. (hint.....start with a tt, and ends with a ompatz) |
He can file for the criminal case but that won't get his money. There is no restitution. He will still need to proceed with the civil claim. There is NO quick way out of it.
If he wants to get another job, stay here and wait, he will get his money.
IF he wants to move on, then just move on. The claim will be lost and that is what his boss is waiting for.
His boss won't appeal it in court because the cost of the appeal is more than the civil claim.
The other options are a waste of time and energy. |
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poet13
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
Location: Just over there....throwing lemons.
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:26 am Post subject: |
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| Like flashing that batman sign in the sky. |
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plokiju
Joined: 15 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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Does anyone know about the criminal route?
The basic story is that my boss owes me 2.2M won and will make me take him to court to get it which could take 6-8 months. I'm really done with English teaching and just kind of want to get out of Korea. I've been looking at some jobs but none of them really appeal to me and my old boss is going to make everything I do very hard for me.
Apparently, I'm infamous at the Daegu Hagwon Owners' Association (I never really thought such a place existed) and so anyone who wants to hire me has to ask my ex-boss for permission which he won't grant. Actually, I think it's more that any school who wants to hire me will use that to get me to agree to working terrible hours for terrible pay out of desperation. I have 2 failed contracts (quit the first one) so that doesn't look good either. It's going to be hard to find a decent job and I'm not enthusiastic about taking one either, I just want to get things resolved with my former boss.
I really don't care that much about the money, it's more the principle that I'm interested in. I just want my boss to be held accountable, to know that he can't just fire, evict, and steal without consequence. I'd just hate to go the criminal route only to find that the fine is less than what he's keeping from me or just some kind of slap on the wrist. Money seems to be the only thing that hagwon owners care about. What would happen to him for withholding 2.2M? How much would the fine be? What other consequences would there be? What would the time-line be? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.
I already have a certificate of unpaid wages and have a legal aid lawyer and the whole thing to proceed to civil court except the willingness to put my life on hold for 6-8 months while I wait. Are proxies acceptable or could I just return for the case? |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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| plokiju wrote: |
Does anyone know about the criminal route?
The basic story is that my boss owes me 2.2M won and will make me take him to court to get it which could take 6-8 months. I'm really done with English teaching and just kind of want to get out of Korea. I've been looking at some jobs but none of them really appeal to me and my old boss is going to make everything I do very hard for me.
Apparently, I'm infamous at the Daegu Hagwon Owners' Association (I never really thought such a place existed) and so anyone who wants to hire me has to ask my ex-boss for permission which he won't grant. Actually, I think it's more that any school who wants to hire me will use that to get me to agree to working terrible hours for terrible pay out of desperation. I have 2 failed contracts (quit the first one) so that doesn't look good either. It's going to be hard to find a decent job and I'm not enthusiastic about taking one either, I just want to get things resolved with my former boss.
I really don't care that much about the money, it's more the principle that I'm interested in. I just want my boss to be held accountable, to know that he can't just fire, evict, and steal without consequence. I'd just hate to go the criminal route only to find that the fine is less than what he's keeping from me or just some kind of slap on the wrist. Money seems to be the only thing that hagwon owners care about. What would happen to him for withholding 2.2M? How much would the fine be? What other consequences would there be? What would the time-line be? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.
I already have a certificate of unpaid wages and have a legal aid lawyer and the whole thing to proceed to civil court except the willingness to put my life on hold for 6-8 months while I wait. Are proxies acceptable or could I just return for the case? |
There are various Penal Provisions including fines and jail. They are outlined in chapter 12 of the labor standards act - articles 110-116. These are found on pages 175-177.
PM me your e-mail and I will send you a complete copy of the act (pdf format).
I have quoted the text below. I don't have time to format it to fit this message board so you will have to live with a cut and paste.
Article 112 relates to unpaid wages (violation of section 42 of the act).
CHAPTER Ⅻ
Penal Provisions
Article 110 (Penal Provisions)
A person who has violated the provisions of Article 6, 7, 8,
30(1) and (2), or 39 shall be punished by imprisonment for less
than five years or by a fine not exceeding thirty million won.
Article 111 (Penal Provisions)
A labor inspector who has willfully connived at contravention
of the provisions of this Act shall be punished by imprisonment
for less than three years or suspension of civil rights for less
than five years.
Article 112 (Penal Provisions)
A person who has violated the provisions of Article 36, 42,
43, 45, 55, 63 or 70 shall be punished by imprisonment for less
than three years or by a fine not exceeding twenty million won.
Article 113 (Penal Provisions)
Any person falling under any of the following subparagraphs
shall be punished by imprisonment for less than two years, or
by a fine not exceeding ten million won:
1. A person who has violated Article 9, 29(1), 32, 34(1) or (2),
49, 52(1) or (2) or the text of Article 52(3), Article 53, 54,
57(1), 59(1) or (3), 62, 67, 68(1) or (2), 69, 72, 73, 81, 82,
83, 85, 86, or 107(2); <Amended by Act No. 6507, Aug. 14,
2001>
1. A person who has violated Article 9, 29(1), 32, 34(1) or
(2), 49, 52(1) or (2) or the text of Article 52(3), Article 53,
54, 59(1), (2), (4) or (5), 62, 67, 68(1) or (2), 69, 72, 73, 81,
82, 83, 85, 86, or 107(2); <Amended by Act No. 6974, Sep.
15, 2003>
2. A person who has violated orders issued in accordance
with Article 52 (4); or
3. Deleted. <Act No. 5885, Feb. 8, 1999>
Article 114 (Penal Provisions)
A person who has violated the provisions of Article 44 shall
be punished by a fine not exceeding ten million won.
Article 115 (Penal Provisions)
A person who falls under any of the following Subparagraphs
shall be punished by a fine not exceeding five million won:
1. a person who has violated Article 5, 13, 23, 24, 27, 28,
29(2), 38, 40, 41, 46, 47, the proviso of Article 52(3), 64,
65, 68(3), 71, 77, 94, 96, 97, 98, 101(2), 102, 103, or 106;
<Amended by Act No. 6507, Aug. 14, 2001>
2. Deleted. <Act No. 5885, Feb. 8, 1999>
3. a person who has failed to comply with an order issued
in accordance with Article 99(2);
4. a person who has refused, obstructed or evaded inspections
or medical examinations by a labor inspector or a medical
doctor designated by a labor inspector in accordance with
Article 105 or who has not made any statement to the
inquiry, or who has made false statements, or who has failed
to present books or documents or who has presented
false books or documents; or
5. a person who has not made a report, or who has
presented a fraudulent report, or who has failed to be
present himself in compliance with a request of the Minister
of Labor, the Labor Relations Commission or a labor
inspector in accordance with the provisions of Article 12.
Article 116 (Double Penal Provisions )
If a person who has committed an act in contravention of
this Act is a proxy, servant or other hired person who acts on
behalf of a business owner in relation to matters regarding
workers at the business concerned, the said business owner shall
likewise be subject to punishment by a fine as provided in each
corresponding Article, unless the business owner(a representative
of a business if a business owner is an incorporation, or a legal
representative if a business owner is a minor or an incompetent
who does not have same ability as that of adult in terms of
business management) had previously taken adequate measures
to prevent violation. A business owner shall also be punished
in the same manner as an actual offender, if a business owner
does not provide adequate measures to prevent violation even
though he recognized the possible violation, or he has failed to
provide necessary corrective measures once he knew of the
violation, or he has instigated such violation to be performed. |
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willneverteachagain
Joined: 17 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 12:01 am Post subject: |
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| BTW u do not need a release letter if he fired you so if he plays that card u can tell him to ^&*% off |
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cdninkorea
Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 2:44 am Post subject: |
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| willneverteachagain wrote: |
| BTW u do not need a release letter if he fired you so if he plays that card u can tell him to ^&*% off |
Sure about that? I thought you did- I know I insisted one a letter of release from my first job when I got fired from it.
(I'm not disputing your claim; just want to verify) |
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plokiju
Joined: 15 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 3:26 am Post subject: |
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| Well my E-2 visa was cancelled so I doubt I'd need a letter of release. It's more a matter of a gentlemen's agreement I believe. Too bad my boss was no gentleman. |
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Ianinilsan
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 4:26 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Apparently, I'm infamous at the Daegu Hagwon Owners' Association (I never really thought such a place existed) |
Hagwon Owners' Association? That sounds like a bad group. I'll ask a stupid question. Is there one of these groups in every town in Korea? Does anyone know? |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 5:29 am Post subject: |
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| Ianinilsan wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Apparently, I'm infamous at the Daegu Hagwon Owners' Association (I never really thought such a place existed) |
Hagwon Owners' Association? That sounds like a bad group. I'll ask a stupid question. Is there one of these groups in every town in Korea? Does anyone know? |
As far as i know, most major areas have one. |
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Young FRANKenstein
Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Location: Castle Frankenstein (that's FRONKensteen)
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| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 6:08 am Post subject: |
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| Ianinilsan wrote: |
| Hagwon Owners' Association? That sounds like a bad group |
It can be, depending on which one. Many of them have legal beagles cook up schemes to save them money and screw us, bending the law as much as possible (usually) without breaking it.
eg. don't pay the final salary, force the teacher to stick around to go to labor. If he doesn't, they win. If he does, then delay as long as possible, and maybe they leave before it's resolved. They win again. Pay only if it looks like the teacher will not leave. |
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willneverteachagain
Joined: 17 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 11:05 am Post subject: |
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Sure about that? I thought you did- I know I insisted one a letter of release from my first job when I got fired from it.
(I'm not disputing your claim; just want to verify) |
i know ur not disputing anything
the reason i know this is because i did exactly what u did, was fired for no reason and thought i needed a letter too becasue no one told me any different, only that u need a letter to get another job but the director and recuiter lied to me about it and i found out months later that i didnt need one because the director broke the contract not me.
Any guesses who the recuiter was?
None other than DAVID KANG
IM SURE THIS a75hole has tried to start up again somewhere in korea and has had serveral business names. I hope he burns in hell |
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plokiju
Joined: 15 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 5:34 am Post subject: |
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I'm still a bit torn as whether to stay and fight it out or leave. I have a new little problem though. I'm on a G-1 visa right now and so I'd need a new E-2 visa to work again. The problem is that immigration won't give me one. At least, that's what I've been told.
I got a text message today from a school saying it would be impossible to get me a new visa if I were to pursue my case. Apparently, if I drop my suit, I could get a new visa easily. My whole reason for staying though is the court case. I'm not sure if this is from the Hagwon Assn or immigration. Could anyone make an educated guess?
It's either that my G-1 can't be changed because of some immigration technicality, which I can't really imagine. Or my old boss is doing something at the assn which seems funny though since this last school was desperate to hire and seemed to want me badly enough to break rank at some silly organization. I just can't imagine what it is and need to make some kind of decision about my future soon.
If I really can't get another job in Korea, I just don't know what I'd be able to do. Take up privates and risk deportation or spend all my savings waiting for this freaking thing to go to court. How likely would it be that I could sue my boss for wages I could've potentially made. I mean 2M a month plus accomodation costs for the 6 months I'd have to wait it out because I had to claim my lost wages while he(or something related) prevented me earning money would be nice but I really don't see it happening. Does anyone know? This just doesn't seem right to me. I must have more recourse than sitting around homeless and unemployed until my day in court.
I quit my first contract and it took immigration like 2-3 weeks to approve the visa for this job (same city) or so I was told. I'm still not sure why. Bureaucracy or guild stuff. Someone needs to bring down that hagwon assn. It could only be like some kind of cartel designed to fix prices, wages, and use every deceptive trick to cheat teachers and parents alike. |
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Ianinilsan
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 4:58 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Many of them have legal beagles cook up schemes to save them money and screw us, bending the law as much as possible (usually) without breaking it.
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I did not know this. Wow, they work together to cheat teachers. That explains a lot. |
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