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American Citizens lined up out the door
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Yo!Chingo



Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: Seoul Korea
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 2:56 pm    Post subject: American Citizens lined up out the door Reply with quote
This is to everyone who says that illegal immigrants are only doing the jobs that "Americans won't do".

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_5215724,00.html
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mindmetoo



Joined: 02 Feb 2004
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 3:02 pm    Post subject: Re: American Citizens lined up out the door Reply with quote
Yo!Chingo wrote:
This is to everyone who says that illegal immigrants are only doing the jobs that "Americans won't do".

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_5215724,00.html



I don't think the argument is every job they do is a job Americans in large numbers don't want. I'm sure an industry like meat packing prefers illegals because a) they're not aware of their rights b) they'll work for less c) longer hours d) won't unionize etc. It is, however, encouraging to see American born (or if this was in Canada, Canadian born), willing to take such hard jobs.
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Wangja



Joined: 17 May 2004
Location: Seoul, Yongsan
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 3:49 pm    Post subject: Re: American Citizens lined up out the door Reply with quote
Yo!Chingo wrote:
This is to everyone who says that illegal immigrants are only doing the jobs that "Americans won't do".

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_5215724,00.html


Fret not, as the US economy goes mammaries-up this situation will resolve itself.
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Gopher



Joined: 04 Jun 2005
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
mindmetoo wrote:
I don't think the argument is...


The argument generally runs like this: Americans are lazy but Mexicans are noble and hard-working...Indeed, Americans could not even survive without Mexican labor...and Americans are racist oppressors but Mexicans just want to help us out...

Sound familiar?

It should. It is the usual Third-World self-romanticizing schtick. Especially in Latin America and the Caribbean where they tell themselves and their children that they are Caliban to our Ariel.

This attitude especially comes to the surface in Arevalo's diatribe, The Shark and the Sardines.

So just because so many Mexicans, coming from such a disorganized and corrupt political economy, so uneducated and illiterate that they only know bracero work, are so desperate to get into the United States that they sell themselves as a slave-wage earning working class, this does not make them especially noble or hard-working -- it merely makes them a horde of desperate people, systematically searching for whatever argument and propaganda angle might work best for them...

Last edited by Gopher on Thu Dec 21, 2006 4:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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khyber



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Say what you want, I really doubt that the "new blood" is going to maintain as low of a turnover rate as the Mexican population managed.
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khyber



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Say what you want, I really doubt that the "new blood" is going to maintain as low of a turnover rate as the Mexican population managed.

Lining up to work a slaughterhouse job should be a sad indication of the state of things for the mid-lower/lower classes.
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Gopher



Joined: 04 Jun 2005
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
khyber wrote:
...I really doubt that the "new blood" is going to maintain as low of a turnover rate as the Mexican population managed.


That is mostly because "the new blood" was never conditioned to keep their mouths shut and obey the patr�n in all things...or has not been a peasantry since the Middle Ages, for that matter...

We must be careful in making comparisons not to present ourselves or the Mexicans as inferior or superior in virture or anything else.

We come from different historical trajectories -- no more, no less. And I personally feel Mexican immigrants should be welcome into the United States -- provided they do so legally and once here, learn English and pay taxes, etc. And they are generally not doing that now.
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ddeubel



Joined: 20 Jul 2005
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
We must be careful in making comparisons not to present ourselves or the Mexicans as inferior or superior in virture or anything else.


+

Quote:
It should. It is the usual Third-World self-romanticizing schtick.

Just because so many Mexicans, coming from such a disorganized and corrupt political economy, so uneducated and illiterate that they only know bracero work, are so desperate to get into the United States that they sell themselves as a slave-wage earning working class, this does not make them especially noble or hard-working -- it merely makes them a horde of desperate people, systematically searching for whatever argument and propaganda angle might work best for them...



Quote:
=


Intellectual dissonance or obfuscation. You only want to believe whatever feeds your arguement. You can't see the forest for the trees. If you truly believed the former, the latter would not ever so much as cross your wires....

Please see...
http://www.learningandteaching.info/learning/dissonance.htm

DD

DD
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Gopher



Joined: 04 Jun 2005
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
LOL Ddeubel.

No need to debate (or, in your case, lecture). Tens of millions of Mexicans have confirmed this by voting with their feet on the issue already...and millions more are almost certianly en route.

Mexico is broken. It has almost always been. Period. Not a comparison of who is "lazy" or "hard working" but rather the most plausible explanation for the exodus.

You who would apologize for or deny this are the ones guilty of obfuscation.
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thepeel



Joined: 08 Aug 2004
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The issue isn't that Joe America won't work these jobs, it is that he won't work the jobs for the wages the Mexicans will. The Mexicans undercut the minimum wage or the trendy "living wage" so aggressively advocated by the left.

My opinion, well, let them work but make them legal. They ought to pay taxes and be held to the minimum wage that the rest are. One of the strangest aspects of this whole debate is that if the Mexicans are made legal (or provided an easy route to legality/legal employment) their numbers would drastically decrease as their comparative advantage (working below minimum wage) would be abolished.
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